Sailing Caribbean for UK Passport holders

[Marceline]

Hi - we're still years away from sailing across blue waters but having been looking at the tricky limiting factors of trying to sail in the EU/Med for UK passport holders I just hoped to ask some advice on the Carribean and visa requirements ?

So guess this is a very naive/simplistic question - but if we both have UK passports is it somewhat easier to cruise in the Caribbean than the EU/Med in terms of visas?

With places Britsh Overseas Territories like the British Virgin Islands and Anguila is it possible to visit those places as tourists and then move on to other Islands territories (such as French, Spanish or Dutch if can get permission to enter etc) and then move back to British Territories on tourist visa and cruise around the region ?

I should note we are very keen to avoid any US territories (many reasons)

We'd hope to visit independent countries too and places like Mexico/Central/South America too (again within tourist visa requirements) -

Just wanted to ask as it will help to give us some ideas for future plans

 

[Bajansailor]

With British passports you will be able to visit pretty much everywhere in the Caribbean, with no worries about needing any visas.

 

[Marceline]

ah thanks - so do people move from islands/territories onto another once they're close to the end of their basic tourist visa and restart in another territory ?

 

[BobnLesley]

ah thanks - so do people move from islands/territories onto another once they're close to the end of their basic tourist visa and restart in another territory ?

Exactly that, but the adjacent island/territory is rarely more than a short day sail away and the islands are all happy for you to return within just a few days and/or extend your visa. The only country we visited which required a visa arranging ahead of our visit was the USA (Including USVIs Puerto Rico) and you'll need to get a B1/B2 visa, not just the ESTA to sail there. Enjoy.

 

[Marceline]

this is a real help for our ideas for future plans - many thanks!

 

[capnsensible]

It's very important to clear in and out at each territory. It's a pain sometimes but it's worth it to stay onside.

 

[Marceline]

many thanks and duly noted

 

[Dogone]

Hi - we're still years away from sailing across blue waters but having been looking at the tricky limiting factors of trying to sail in the EU/Med for UK passport holders I just hoped to ask some advice on the Carribean and visa requirements ?

So guess this is a very naive/simplistic question - but if we both have UK passports is it somewhat easier to cruise in the Caribbean than the EU/Med in terms of visas?

With places Britsh Overseas Territories like the British Virgin Islands and Anguila is it possible to visit those places as tourists and then move on to other Islands territories (such as French, Spanish or Dutch if can get permission to enter etc) and then move back to British Territories on tourist visa and cruise around the region ?

I should note we are very keen to avoid any US territories (many reasons)

We'd hope to visit independent countries too and places like Mexico/Central/South America too (again within tourist visa requirements) -

Just wanted to ask as it will help to give us some ideas for future plans

Dead easy. None of that Schengen bullshit. Even the French islands don't care about it. They don't even inspect passports, let alone stamp them. The US islands are the exception, but there is a work-around via the BVI ferry.

 

[capnsensible]

Dead easy. None of that Schengen bullshit. Even the French islands don't care about it. They don't even inspect passports, let alone stamp them. The US islands are the exception, but there is a work-around via the BVI ferry.

Does mean that when you leave a French Island to go to an independent Island State you are gonna have to lie when you clear in. Some maybe happy with doing that.

Does the BVI think still work? Many years since I used it but now I wouldn't trust US immigration as far as an ant could throw a planet.

 

[Dogone]

Does mean that when you leave a French Island to go to an independent Island State you are gonna have to lie when you clear in. Some maybe happy with doing that.

Does the BVI think still work? Many years since I used it but now I wouldn't trust US immigration as far as an ant could throw a planet.

No lie is necessary. You get a clear out document, which you use to clear in to the next port. Dead easy. You can even print it yourself without any official endorsement. It's quite refreshing. You can lie if you want of course and forge it if you must. It's not going to be checked. Until it is....

Indeed, I wouldn't trust the US CBP. They are total bastards. Get a recording of phone advice with a official's number or better in email. You won't get that though. They don't know the law and won't put their name to anything. It is regularly done though.

 

[capnsensible]

No lie is necessary. You get a clear out document, which you use to clear in to the next port. Dead easy. You can even print it yourself without any official endorsement. It's quite refreshing. You can lie if you want of course and forge it if you must. It's not going to be checked. Until it is....

Indeed, I wouldn't trust the US CBP. They are total bastards. Get a recording of phone advice with a official's number or better in email. You won't get that though. They don't know the law and won't put their name to anything. It is regularly done though.

So the French islands do clear you out and provide a zarpe for clearing in the next place. How does that jive with #8 unless you don't get one and tell porkies? I know for a fact that used to happen a lot for yachts entering Antigua from Deshais on Guadeloupe.

 

[Dogone]

I can't see a contradiction - where is the confusion? The French Islands will provide a clearing in/out document. That's all they do and that's all I said they do.

 

[Marceline]

all really helpful and thank you

one extra question is we're looking to get a Westerly Bilge Keeler to first head around UK/ROI and trips to EU (def want to visit Norway) and hopefully then make our way in a couple of years to Western Med before hopefully having the experience to head across the Atlantic.

The boats we're looking at have dafts of 1.1m to 1.4m (3.5feet to 4.5feet approx for a 32' to 36' boat) - would those all be ok for around Caribbean or would having a 3.5' draft be a more useful draft ?

Only two of us so the bigger boat would be preferable but if a bit smaller opens up many more places maybe we can go the the 32' ?

 

[KevinV]

all really helpful and thank you

one extra question is we're looking to get a Westerly Bilge Keeler to first head around UK/ROI and trips to EU (def want to visit Norway) and hopefully then make our way in a couple of years to Western Med before hopefully having the experience to head across the Atlantic.

The boats we're looking at have dafts of 1.1m to 1.4m (3.5feet to 4.5feet approx for a 32' to 36' boat) - would those all be ok for around Caribbean or would having a 3.5' draft be a more useful draft ?

Only two of us so the bigger boat would be preferable but if a bit smaller opens up many more places maybe we can go the the 32' ?

That's a lot of distance to sail to choose a bilge keeler - and there's little point having one in the eastern Caribbean at least (in fact, I don't think I've ever seen one out there). Not saying it can't be done, but for the distances you're talking about covering I'd prioritise sailing ability.

 

[oldbloke]

The French Islands' system is all on line and is great, except...... If you want to go to Antigua , you have to dig out a random bloke in Deshaies to print it off and stamp it. Because if you didn't have to bring lots of bits of paper to Antigua they wouldn't be able to employ 25 uncooperative surly bustards to waste 3 hours of your life while they relieve you of loads of money and pitch unintelligible about how you haven't got the right information.
Not that I'm bitter or anything. Great island, great people and they have to put their sociopaths somewhere

 

[Dogone]

The French Islands' system is all on line and is great, except...... If you want to go to Antigua , you have to dig out a random bloke in Deshaies to print it off and stamp it. Because if you didn't have to bring lots of bits of paper to Antigua they wouldn't be able to employ 25 uncooperative surly bustards to waste 3 hours of your life while they relieve you of loads of money and pitch unintelligible about how you haven't got the right information.
Not that I'm bitter or anything. Great island, great people and they have to put their sociopaths somewhere

I’m with you in sentiment, but different offices and officials in Antigua demand different things. People have cleared in with an Ipad image of the on-line French clear-out documents. Others insist on paper, but you can print it yourself and the most officious want a stamp and inked signature with the smell of French perfume on it.

 

[Sea Change]

It's all pretty easy once you get here. The French islands have recently switched to an online check in system, but if your next destination is not a French islands it's safest to go ashore and get a print out of the exit document. You may be charged anything from zero to $5 for this. I've heard plenty of people just printing out their own, or showing a digital version, and getting away with it. The check out place might be in a chandlery or cafe so I generally just pop in and do it the day before I leave.

As for length of time in each place... I suppose there must be limits, in certain countries, but in practice after a month or so most people tend to move on anyway. We spent over six months continuously in Grenada over summer and there was no problem.

The USVI and Puerto Rico are a bit different, ideally you get a B1/B2 visa before you go m agin, I know people who have done it differently but they might have just been lucky.

Tbh I wasn't very impressed with USVI, I would just spend the time in BVI instead, much nicer.

One guy I met would spend an entire season cruising up and down the windies without ever checking in or out. He just couldn't be bothered, and had been cruising so long that he felt the risks of being caught were miniscule. As far as I'm aware he never was caught, but it's not a risk I would personally take.

 

[Sea Change]

all really helpful and thank you

one extra question is we're looking to get a Westerly Bilge Keeler to first head around UK/ROI and trips to EU (def want to visit Norway) and hopefully then make our way in a couple of years to Western Med before hopefully having the experience to head across the Atlantic.

The boats we're looking at have dafts of 1.1m to 1.4m (3.5feet to 4.5feet approx for a 32' to 36' boat) - would those all be ok for around Caribbean or would having a 3.5' draft be a more useful draft ?

Only two of us so the bigger boat would be preferable but if a bit smaller opens up many more places maybe we can go the the 32' ?

A bilge keel has no advantage in the Caribbean.
There is almost no tide so you can't dry out somewhere. And if you were to go aground, you can't heel the boat to get off again.

Also, nothing wrong with small boats but you will find yourself very much in the minority. Even our 47ft boat feels small here. Probably the most common type of boat we see is cats of 45ft or more.

Make sure you have adequate stowage and tankage, as that's the main drawback of a smaller boat for long distance cruising. The more you can stock up, the cheaper your life will be. We would stock up for six months at a time in the French islands. A freezer is brilliant, ours has paid for itself many times over. The price of meat is eye watering in some islands.

The second big drawback of a smaller boat is the amount of solar you can fit (these days anything under ~600w is considered small, and we have 1350; some of the larger cats have 2-4kw).

Thirdly, your choice of tender is important, and again a small boat limits your options. There are places in the Caribbean where it's useful to have a decent sized dinghy that can plane. Up in the Bahamas it's even more important. But you can make it work with a smaller, slower dinghy too. It's a bit like owning a bike instead of a car.


Sorry if that all sounds like I'm saying it's impossible to do this unless you are on a 40ft+ boat with a RIB and your own solar farm. People have been doing it on small and simple boats for decades, and a few people continue to do so. There's something to be said for simplicity. If you don't have a system, it can't break. My watermaker is currently out of action, a story you'll hear very often. I know people on big complex boats who seem to spend half their time in marinas waiting on parts, often for things like generators or air con, which we don't have.

How much space and comfort do you realistically need? Only you can answer that.

 

[Tranona]

all really helpful and thank you

one extra question is we're looking to get a Westerly Bilge Keeler to first head around UK/ROI and trips to EU (def want to visit Norway) and hopefully then make our way in a couple of years to Western Med before hopefully having the experience to head across the Atlantic.

The boats we're looking at have dafts of 1.1m to 1.4m (3.5feet to 4.5feet approx for a 32' to 36' boat) - would those all be ok for around Caribbean or would having a 3.5' draft be a more useful draft ?

Only two of us so the bigger boat would be preferable but if a bit smaller opens up many more places maybe we can go the the 32' ?

Echo what others say. There is no advantage to bilge keels except if you have a drying mooring. Of course people have gone off ocean and Med voyaging in boats like the Westerlys you are looking at but that was mainly because that was what was available 40 years ago, and later because they became "cheap". However, boats designed for the rough and tumble of coastal sailing in the UK are not particularly suited for use in warm non tidal waters. Have a look at what people actually use and you will see very different boats. I discovered this 30 years ago when planning my long term trip to the Med. My "ideal" was a Moody or Westerly just like you are looking at. Buy it and slowly sail it down to Greece ready for retirement. As part of the search we chartered a Moody 37 in the Med and within a couple of days realised how unsuitable it was. Great for living down below with lots of cabins, sumptuous woodwork, but a tiny exposed centre cockpit, poor access to the water for boarding and swimming, poor light airs performance so motored most of the time. Quickly canned the idea and bought a Bavaria 37. Simple, big cockpit, good sugar scoop for boarding and swimming, good light airs sailing, big engine, large fuel and water capacity, big bimini for shade in the cockpit, large fridge ample electric power Good anchoring arrangements with electric windlass.

Not as nicely made as the Moody, but far better for the job. When you go off voyaging the boat is more a means to an end rather than an end in itself, and buying a boat that is matched to the job is better than trying to adapt a boat designed for completely different sailing conditions. This does not mean that boats like the Westerly are not capable of the passage making - in fact in some ways better than more modern boats, it is just that you will be unusual if you spend more than 15% of your time actually sailing. It is living on board that is the priority.

The Westerly will serve you well for phase one - expanding horizons in coastal sailing and longer cruises to Europe or Scandinavia. I would avoid bilge keels if you can as the fin keels generally sail better and there really are not practical limitation with a 1.5m fin keel. Avoid ketches and unless you can afford to go to the Dubois centre cockpit designs or the bigger Conway with decent aft cabins, stick to aft cockpit. Pretty sure after 5 years or so, particularly if you have managed to get south towards Spain you will come to the conclusion that if you want to go further you will need a different kind of boat.

 

[Marceline]

A bilge keel has no advantage in the Caribbean.
There is almost no tide so you can't dry out somewhere. And if you were to go aground, you can't heel the boat to get off again.

Also, nothing wrong with small boats but you will find yourself very much in the minority. Even our 47ft boat feels small here. Probably the most common type of boat we see is cats of 45ft or more.

Make sure you have adequate stowage and tankage, as that's the main drawback of a smaller boat for long distance cruising. The more you can stock up, the cheaper your life will be. We would stock up for six months at a time in the French islands. A freezer is brilliant, ours has paid for itself many times over. The price of meat is eye watering in some islands.

The second big drawback of a smaller boat is the amount of solar you can fit (these days anything under ~600w is considered small, and we have 1350; some of the larger cats have 2-4kw).

Thirdly, your choice of tender is important, and again a small boat limits your options. There are places in the Caribbean where it's useful to have a decent sized dinghy that can plane. Up in the Bahamas it's even more important. But you can make it work with a smaller, slower dinghy too. It's a bit like owning a bike instead of a car.


Sorry if that all sounds like I'm saying it's impossible to do this unless you are on a 40ft+ boat with a RIB and your own solar farm. People have been doing it on small and simple boats for decades, and a few people continue to do so. There's something to be said for simplicity. If you don't have a system, it can't break. My watermaker is currently out of action, a story you'll hear very often. I know people on big complex boats who seem to spend half their time in marinas waiting on parts, often for things like generators or air con, which we don't have.

How much space and comfort do you realistically need? Only you can answer that.

ah amazing and many thanks for all your info/suggestions and advice - really appreciated (and sorry I'd not replied sooner - had missed these)

Thats lots of food for thought about the island various rules and hopefully we'll get over in a few years

Just a follow up on bilge keels and how theres very little tidal range - for boats like catamarans what happens if they run aground ? Similarly for if a fin keel boat gets unfortunately blown onto a sandbank?

Sadly our budget is very much at the low end so we'd not be able to get much of a bigger boat and will likely be around 33' (but hoping to maybe save some more for a 36') but maybe we'll hold off getting or next boat and try and get as large a one as we can.