Sailing across the channel

[Lucky Duck]

Searush,

IME lake sailors are amongst the best sailors in the country. They have an ability to react to changing wind conditions vastly superior to most sea based sailors, simply because that's what they experience week in week out. Not to say that they don't need to prep, and get some sea time under their belts, but as per my previous post.... maybe some positive support rather than immediate condemnation would help

When on a lake it is all about the windshifts and using them to your advantage but when sailing on tidal waters things become more complicated. Tacking on a shift that takes you into a stronger foul tide isn't going to be very fast.

 

[Searush]

When on a lake it is all about the windshifts and using them to your advantage but when sailing on tidal waters things become more complicated. Tacking on a shift that takes you into a stronger foul tide isn't going to be very fast.

You are all completely missing the point.

Seamanship (at SEA) is about safe progress, not fancy tacking or speed around a few nearby bouys for an hour or so on a nice day & on flat water.

You may not even need to tack once on a channel crossing! But you may need to reef, bail, eat, go to the loo, rest, change clothes (putting extra on or taking off oilies etc). It's about being several hours at sea, maybe out of sight of land, navigation, knowing what the tide is doing & allowing for its effects, avoiding the big ships, dealing wth their wash. Any breakages such as tiller, or gudgeon or shroud plate pulling out has to be dealt with afloat & many miles from shore. It may also be about dealing with seasickness, sunstroke, hypothermia, MoB, breaking waves, even finding a safe place to land when you get to the other side.

Now, tell me, how does inland sailing help with that lot? But all this has already been pointed out in my earlier posts & graciously acknowledged by Mollykins.

It ain't impossible, but there is a LOT of planning to make the outcome even reasonably safe. Or you can just do it & hope nothing goes wrong or that there is someone to pull you out of the sh!t if something does go wrong.

 

[LittleSister]

I agree with most things said so far on this thread, even the contradictory ones!

I'd encourage you to go and have an adventure at sea in a dinghy, but crossing the channel shouldn't be your first one. There's so much pleasure to be had doing less hazardous, but still challenging, trips as a means of working up to doing the channel once you have the experience to understand what you are letting yourself in for.

Crossing the channel in a dinghy perfectly doable with care, but don't underestimate the value of having experience at sea, an understanding of navigation, buoyage and the shipping lanes. If you must do it in a Graduate, work out some robust way of reducing the sail area, and go with only two of you (could you get a second boat and fourth person?) and the means (and skills) to fix breakages and other problems.

For a hugely enjoyable and informative read on what fun you can have in a cheap dinghy, including how not to cross the channel in a dinghy (a single-handed Mirror in this case) try 'The Unlikely Voyage of Jack de Crow - A Mirror Odyssey from North Wales to the Black Sea' by A J Mackinnon. (Do bear in mind, though, the author had a great deal of luck, and probably greater knowledge than he lets on!)

 

[Csail]

Ignore all negative comments, just do it but take all the right kit.Suddenly you will be in your fiftys and regret not doing it. I spontainously did Cardiff to Portugal late one night in the yc bar.......boring but good trip.Biscay was a bit dodgy though.

 

[Lucky Duck]

You are all completely missing the point.

Seamanship (at SEA) is about safe progress, not fancy tacking or speed around a few nearby bouys for an hour or so on a nice day & on flat water.

I don't disagree with anything you have written and hopefully my previous posts on this thread show that what is being described is possible but there are caveats regarding crew and boat which need to be addressed.

However I can think of times when the skills learnt on the race course have saved me valuable when crossing the channel in marginal conditions.

 

[Lucky Duck]

spontainously did Cardiff to Portugal late one night in the yc bar.

Impressive, tell us more

 

[Searush]

Jack de Crow is a great book, but then the Mirror dinghy is far better suited for cruising than a Graduate.

The rig can be erected & taken down at sea, it is relatively underpowered with less strain on all fittings, it can be rigged with just the main, it can be reefed, it is very simple & easy to fix on the hoof . It is set up to be effectively rowed, all the spars fit inside if you need the ultimate reef, or if there is a catastrophic rigging failure.

These are the issues of open sea dinghy cruising. Far removed from inland racing. Much more satisfying too in my opinion.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I wonder how channel swimmers deal with the tricky man overboard situation?

 

[Searush]

I wonder how channel swimmers deal with the tricky man overboard situation?

No need to show yourself to be a prat. Are you suggesting that the 3 should practice long distance swimming, wear goggles & cover themselves in fat when sailing? Or do you completely discount the difficulty in getting a crew member back aboard?

Lake sailing is done with rescue craft close to hand & with largely flat water, MoB is simply a question of waiting until picked up by the rescue RIB. In the channel, that could mean being lost from sight before the dinghy can get back to them, especially if a capsize situation.

This shouldn't need explaining to people who own seagoing boats.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

No need to show yourself to be a prat. Are you suggesting that the 3 should practice long distance swimming, wear goggles & cover themselves in fat when sailing? Or do you completely discount the difficulty in getting a crew member back aboard?

Lake sailing is done with rescue craft close to hand & with largely flat water, MoB is simply a question of waiting until picked up by the rescue RIB. In the channel, that could mean being lost from sight before the dinghy can get back to them, especially if a capsize situation.

This shouldn't need explaining to people who own seagoing boats.

Calm down old chap, I was using something we on the East Coast call a 'sense of humour'. It was funny you see because (wait for it) the swimmer was already overboard

Not hilariously funny I agree but I think it was a little bit funny. I laughed a little bit. Try it, you may find it helps.

 

[sighmoon]

The OP will make his own mind up, I'm sure. Instead of arguning whether he should or shouldn't do it, maybe it would be more helpful to address the issues raised, and what equipment is essential.

Reefing:
If your mainsail is sheeted at the transom, then you can reef by rolling it round the boom. You will loose the kicking strap though.

Clothing:
It has to be a wet suit and bouyancy aid all the way.

Loss of rudder:
Sailing a dinghy with no rudder is much easier than sailing a yacht with no rudder. You can steer by leaning the boat and trimming the sails. Easier with the board raised a little

MOB
Again, I think ths is easier than on a big yacht. For one thing, you are certain to notice the very split second it happens. You can turn round very quickly, and you can lean the boat sufficiently for your man to get over the gunwhale.

Experience on the sea:
I learned on a small gravel pit, but one a year took my National 12 to the nationals on the sea, where there were some windy races with big waves. It certainly made the lake feel it was lacking something afterwards. Tides can be a problem, but they are predictable.

Equipment:
Compass - a hand bearing one on a lanyard round your neck would be good.
Lights - it may take you longer than you think; you can get 'emergency' ones with integral battery
GPS with waterproof chart secured to the boat - taped to the thwart maybe.
Wetsuits, bouyancy aids etc
Water and food - stowed so that it'll still be OK after a capsize. Not the bouyancy tanks
Paddles
Anchor with a short length of chain and a lot of rope.
British Ensign (my thought is that this means you are sailign under British regs rather than French)

 

[BrianH]

Reefing:
If your mainsail is sheeted at the transom, then you can reef by rolling it round the boom. You will loose the kicking strap though.

Not all dinghies can reef, I don't know about a Graduate, but it should be an essential. My Wayfarer had a squared gooseneck that needed the halyard releasing, the boom drawn aft, rotated with the sail rolling around it and replaced, the halyard then sweated up. All the time the boat can be dead in the water and vulnerable to swamping unless still driven by the headsail, which needs teamwork and practice.

MOB
Again, I think ths is easier than on a big yacht. For one thing, you are certain to notice the very split second it happens. You can turn round very quickly, and you can lean the boat sufficiently for your man to get over the gunwhale.

In my experience this can capsize the boat, especially in the confusion of another crew-member leaning over to assist - a water-logged person plus another on the gunwale is just too much for some dinghies. Better, as with a righted dinghy after a capsize, to climb back over the transom.

Equipment:
Water and food - stowed so that it'll still be OK after a capsize. Not the bouyancy tanks

What I found with my Wayfarer to be essential was that the bailing bucket was TIED in the boat and not stored in the sealed forward compartment - that would have needed opening to get it and let all the water in from the flooded cockpit.

Righting my Fireball and clearing the water was so much easier, sheet in and start sailing and it all swooshed away through the self-bailers.

All the above was from experience a lifetime ago and a failing memory may have blurred the veracity, plus a complete ignorance of a Graduate dinghy - so only offered as talking points.

 

[Searush]

The OP will make his own mind up, I'm sure. Instead of arguning whether he should or shouldn't do it, maybe it would be more helpful to address the issues raised, and what equipment is essential.

(snip)

Complete agreement; that has been my emphasis all along.

Very low freeboard helps with MoB too, but it still needs practice. If the 2 inboard crew members instinctively go to help MoB, the boat will capsize. But if they heave to & move away from where the casualty is climbing aboard to provide balance, it SHOULD be OK, but practice it. No inshore racing with a RIB rescue boat at hand will prepare them for a 20 mile open sea passage on their own.

I still suspect that 3 in the boat is overloading it & reducing their ability to deal with any problems - but a short coastal sea cruise will soon identify that as a problem, or not. All they need is to build up to the long open sea passage, get some experience/ practice dealing with any potential issues.

Steering without a rudder is fine if you have space. I wouldn't want to try it crossing the traffic lanes, would you? Carrying a screwdriver & a few screws & a spare fitting or two & tying the rudder on would make life a lot easier & safer. Drop the sails & put out a small drogue & you could probably repair in situ. Paddles are another essential, but I'm pretty sure I'm duplicating earlier stuff.

Sitting/ crouching for 7 hours in a wet suit will cause chafe in sea water & mean they need a change of clothing on the other side - support crew?

 

[Lucky Duck]

All they need is to build up to the long open sea passage, get some experience/ practice dealing with any potential issues.

Assuming they don't just rock up at one of the channel ports with the boat on a trailer then crossing the Thames should provide more than enough practice in coastal passage making. Often this bit feels much harder work than crossing the channel itself.

 

[sighmoon]

Better, as with a righted dinghy after a capsize, to climb back over the transom.

I found climbing in over the transom makes the boat sail off on its own downwind. May well depend on the type of dinghy. Anyway, as you say it's like getting back on after a capsize, and I'm sure they've done that already.

 

[BobPrell]

Now, tell me, how does inland sailing help with that lot?

Well, experience imposes itself on one in the most unexpected places. I went sailing on a lake once, got hit by a storm I was too inexperienced to recognize coming, kept capsizing because of that free surface effect, went hypothermic etc . . . .

A month later I went sailing on the same lake and the rudder fell off ... I was a lot less hasty with my recovery that time, I'd learnt something.

These things have not happened to me at sea, I've learnt to look after my boats a bit better.

But all this has already been pointed out in my earlier posts & graciously acknowledged by Mollykins.

Well you must be priveleged. I asked that he should but he has not posted again since the first.. Maybe he is swotting.

It ain't impossible, but there is a LOT of planning to make the outcome even reasonably safe. Or you can just do it & hope nothing goes wrong or that there is someone to pull you out of the sh!t if something does go wrong.

I agree. One of the things I find deplorable about the dinghy racing scene is that safety boats become regarded as "rescue" boats, as they have been called in this thread.

 

[Seajet]

So, no reply from the OP ? Hmmm... I did say on page 1 I suspected a Troll...

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Or put off by the rude and dismissive 'elf and safety brigade. Again not your good self Seajet, I must stop posting immediately after you.

 

[Sailfree]

So, no reply from the OP ? Hmmm... I did say on page 1 I suspected a Troll...

Never underestimate the use and value of knowledge and advice that can be posted on here to the many people who read these threads possibly by googling a related question even if the OP was a troll!

 

[Seajet]

Sailfree,

I agree, I suspect it's why so many have persevered, including me !