Sailing across the Atlantic on a sailing boat, under 40ft.

[Sea Devil]

I really want to do a SH trans atlantic crossing. The one thing that worries me is the motion. sailing my 31 ft boat round the UK has shown me that the endles pounding down below can be really tiring. My longest trips have been about 25 hrs SH. 3 years ago I went from Ramsgate to Bradwell & I was called up by Dover CG because of a report of a vessel in possible distress. It turned out to be me. However, when I went below to get some binoculars I was thrown across the cabin with such force that I had serious back injury for 5 months.
Sailing from Ostend to Bradwell in F7 is a real ache as I can hardly move about & quickly become exhausted. In 2019 Cap Griz Nez clled me up prior to my heading N across the channel in heavy weather to ask if I was Ok. I was but the view from the shore was obviously one of a boat in a washing machine.
I am really worried about how I would fare in an Atlantic storm for a couple of days. Come to that F6-7 for days on end. My boat needs tending 24/7.
I have spoken to sailing club member who did 2 SH crossings in a Vancouver. He said that he was young & just accepted it!!!
A friend of mine, who has said that he has had rougher weather off Canvey Island than when he did his round trip across the Atlantic & back to UK in his 33 ft Carter.
I am not worried about the swell, One sails up & down on that. It is the sea on the swell. Having an AWB, motion is important factor.
So how do others really manage at sea with the motion? How do they deal with coping at 30 degrees of heel for days on end, or constant rolling from side to side in a sub 35 ft boat?

I think the boat has to be able to look after itself under self steering gear... My AP Moody 36 with the hydrovane enabled me just to go to sleep when ever and the harder it blew the better the Hydrovane worked... Bad weather is a bit about size - in my Westerly 43 Lou Lou and I were out in a lot s of seriously heavy weather and it was fine - I keep having to remind myself I don't want to be out in a gale in my Beneteau 323 if I can avoid it - the boat will be fine but I will be hanging on for grim death! I am not as nimble as I was as I was at 30 or 50 and physical strength when things need fixing at sea is also t be considered... which is why my next transatlantic is probably going to be another lockdown video - below

 

[lustyd]

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[john_morris_uk]

There’s a bit of lockdown fever coming through in this thread. The discussion about length of boat started with the suggestion that a bigger (ergo faster) boat would be able to avoid bad weather. I pointed out that this isn’t true. The margins of speed difference might possibly reduce your time at sea (thus decreasing the odds of serious storms hitting you) but that’s IMHO of marginal significance compared to choosing your routing options and seasons with care.

I don’t think anyone is going to argue that a bigger LWL (displacement) boat isn’t faster than a small one but when it comes to crossing oceans don’t hold your breath about always being fast. It’s a very different sort of passage making to sailing around the channel or even Biscay.

Some people might need to take a deep breath and chill a little and listen to those who‘ve been there and done it a few times. We aren’t all old fogeys quite yet.

 

[Sea Devil]

Out of interest, given the changing rules how did you go about ensuring you were there are the other end when it arrived? I assume they pretty much expect you to collect and go when they arrive, or is there a marina waiting zone? Sorry not watched yet

The deal I am working on is that I will put Golden Haze on the merchant ship in Southampton then go home for a few days then fly to Antigua (you buy a two way ticket same price as single then no immigration issues) stay in a guest house till the merchant ship arrives (it appears they dock within a window of days) clear customs with aide of shipping company and off you go,
All the shipping agents also offer 'professional' skippers at both ends to collect or deliver your boat to a marina... In my case Martinique so I do need to do it myself from Antigua... there are a list of some shipping companies in the video... Believe it or not lots of rich racing types ship their boat to Antigua for the race week then back to UK...
Just realised you think I have already done it - it's the plan for October/November this year - covid permitting. Professional skippers can still work and the merchant fleet also.. It's only private people like us who cannot travel ...........

 

[john_morris_uk]

I really want to do a SH trans atlantic crossing. The one thing that worries me is the motion. sailing my 31 ft boat round the UK has shown me that the endles pounding down below can be really tiring. My longest trips have been about 25 hrs SH. 3 years ago I went from Ramsgate to Bradwell & I was called up by Dover CG because of a report of a vessel in possible distress. It turned out to be me. However, when I went below to get some binoculars I was thrown across the cabin with such force that I had serious back injury for 5 months.
Sailing from Ostend to Bradwell in F7 is a real ache as I can hardly move about & quickly become exhausted. In 2019 Cap Griz Nez clled me up prior to my heading N across the channel in heavy weather to ask if I was Ok. I was but the view from the shore was obviously one of a boat in a washing machine.
I am really worried about how I would fare in an Atlantic storm for a couple of days. Come to that F6-7 for days on end. My boat needs tending 24/7.
I have spoken to sailing club member who did 2 SH crossings in a Vancouver. He said that he was young & just accepted it!!!
A friend of mine, who has said that he has had rougher weather off Canvey Island than when he did his round trip across the Atlantic & back to UK in his 33 ft Carter.
I am not worried about the swell, One sails up & down on that. It is the sea on the swell. Having an AWB, motion is important factor.
So how do others really manage at sea with the motion? How do they deal with coping at 30 degrees of heel for days on end, or constant rolling from side to side in a sub 35 ft boat?

FWIW I find the motion off soundings much easier than the short chop we get in inshore waters. However if your boat needs tending the whole time, perhaps it’s not an ideal boat for ocean sailing?

 

[lustyd]

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[RJJ]

You will find that the Moody 33 is surprisingly fast especially downwind, naturally, in paper, the longer the waterline the faster the boat.

If we're still talking a trade wind route, what's actually happening is that cruising boats' performance clusters very close to what waterline length suggests, for various reasons, and to an extent that is indeed surprising when you casually observe performance of the same boats in the Solent.

(1) your Moody has no problem hitting hull speed (2) the hull/keel/rudder aren't being called upon to generate lift so upwind VMG doesn't come into it either (3) the 33 foot AWBs you might be comparing to are carrying an extra ton of food, water and emergency gear which seriously impairs their surfing ability; that effect is less severe with bigger AWBs as the food/water/gear tends not to keep up with size (4) most crews set sail for comfort and safety rather than trying to establish surfing performance. We could make the choice to "race" our AWB across and minimise factors 3 and 4, but few people do.

Length (and weather) become the thing. I'm sure the Moody 33 is a fine boat.

 

[lustyd]

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[john_morris_uk]

The question was why people choose larger boats and why 37' is considered small. Whether you agree with the reasons or not doesn't change the reasons people think that. If you can take a week off a trip and stay within the realms of predictability of serious weather then that's a plus point for a slightly bigger boat. There are numerous people stating this as part of their decision making process online, I was simply answering the OPs question. Some people did argue, and probably still are for all I know.

I still think you haven’t grasped that if you choose the season you’re going to make a passage in, a week here or there makes diddly squat difference to the weather you’ll get. Ocean routing just doesn’t work in the way you’re implying. Do the passage a hundred times and you might notice the difference but for one off passages, the size of boat is all about fridge space, freezer space, water maker and generator and the most important one of all, ease of handling the gear. It’s about how hard you’re going to sail. Are you going to fly a spinnaker? Are you going to fly it all night? (been there and got the t shirt, but I had a crew of 11!) or are you going to rig for comfort and ease of motion?

The difference in hull speed isn’t as big a factor in the overall equation as you’re making out.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Sounds like you're getting your money's worth there. I imagined a much less organised approach with boats just being one of the things on board. I think I'd be tempted to do the same and skip the tedious bit in the middle

Opinions differ, but many of us don’t find ocean sailing tedious. You get into a routine and although it’s exciting to arrive, there’s also a sense of anti-climax that the passage is over.

 

[Bajansailor]

@Daydream believer what type of boat do you have?
If your heart is set on a singlehanded transatlantic, then unless you want to do it in OSTAR fashion across the North Atlantic, you still have to get yourself and the boat down to the Canaries first - and for this it would be wise to have a crew member or two with you, especially as there is so much traffic out there.
And you will probably find that getting away from soundings around Britain out into deep water is the most difficult bit.

I have been across the Atlantic three times under sail, and I was never bored - in between watch keeping, maintenance, preparing food, eating food and sleeping, there is not much free time for anything else.
The longest passage was 25 days and as John says, you get into a routine, almost like the mythical Flying Dutchman, sailing the seas for an eternity.

 

[mrangry]

I thought my Moody 36 was perfect - Angus Primrose knew how to design luxury boats - I lived in her around the world and although I have owned bigger boats I think she was the perfect compromise.. This is the video I made about Atlantic crossing

What a great video....I now fancy crossing the Atlantic. If you are ever doing it again let me know

 

[temptress]

Has anyone on this forum done this?

That used to be the Norm. In 1992 I entered the ARC in my Sigma 362. I was the average size. If i recall correctly there was a maximum size on entry, 60ft?, but no minimum size. Lots of 32 and 34 foot boats that year. I think the smallest was a Frances 27. Friends are 3/4 of the way through a circumnavigation on a 31 foot Bavaria.

Some people think a 50 footer is too small.

 

[lustyd]

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[john_morris_uk]

The question was why people choose larger boats and why 37' is considered small. That's what I was answering. Trying to mansplain ocean sailing to me isn't going to change the question or the answer.

Three pages plus of everyone agreeing that 37’ is perfectly adequate size and your first contribution was this:

Generally bigger means faster so less likely to get caught out by weather. Bear in mind that quite a few people doing this will be wealthy and have months at a time away from work, so probably yes most are 40+ and the trend is towards bigger.

I’m not the only person to try and explain that your premise of ‘less likely to get caught out by the weather was wrong’ but you persist in not liking the answers given.
Or to put it another way. I suggest you think you’re answering the question but all the people who have been there and done it have suggested that worrying about whether a 37’ boat is big enough is not the right question to be asking. For all the reasons given.

It appears that ocean sailing isn’t your thing and that’s fine but it’s a bit rich to sound off about it and then diss the people who’ve generally agreed on the answer. FWIW I agree lots of people who sail off into the sunset aren’t exactly poor and boat sizes are getting bigger. But lots aren’t and sail smaller boats and that’s fine too.
If you don’t like my comments on ocean sailing then don’t read them.

 

[Uricanejack]

I thought my Moody 36 was perfect - Angus Primrose knew how to design luxury boats - I lived in her around the world and although I have owned bigger boats I think she was the perfect compromise.. This is the video I made about Atlantic crossing

Nice, I found it very interesting and enlightening,

I was under the impression 2182 was no longer in use. At least by coast stations. Of course I don’t really pay attention to such things.

 

[roblpm]

That used to be the Norm. In 1992 I entered the ARC in my Sigma 362. I was the average size. If i recall correctly there was a maximum size on entry, 60ft?, but no minimum size. Lots of 32 and 34 foot boats that year. I think the smallest was a Frances 27. Friends are 3/4 of the way through a circumnavigation on a 31 foot Bavaria.

Some people think a 50 footer is too small.

Do your friends on the 31 have a blog? Would be interesting.

 

[lustyd]

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[Adios]

with the hydrovane enabled me just to go to sleep when ever and the harder it blew the better the Hydrovane worked...

Even downwind? I've never had anything more substantial than tiller pilots. On my last boat one time waves picked up going downwind and it just couldn't keep up with the demand for corrections so i was left single handed with no self steering. Maybe the size of the boat has an effect on this aspect, bigger being more directionally stable.

 

[john_morris_uk]

It's not my premise, I never said whether ocean sailing was my thing or not. I've not said what my experience is either, and you never asked. ... I'm not sure what it is you're trying to prove, but you're not proving it to me, you're just coming accross as ignorant and rude.

Firstly I quoted your ‘premise’ but whatever
Secondly, please share your ocean sailing experience with us as it’s not obvious atm.
Thirdly, I’ve no intention of being ignorant or rude. I’m always willing to learn and am open to suggestions regarding all aspects of sailing. However I do have a fair amount of experience and when someone says that a bigger boat sails faster and can avoid bad weather on ocean passages I think a reality check is called for.