Saildrive woes

[zoidberg]

I'm mulling over a 'project' with a Volvo 14hp engine and a saildrive that has 'seized once' - whatever that means. Now, I'm aware that Volvo engine parts are painfully expensive, but I know nowt about saildrives, apart from their seals occasionally needing replacement.

What's to know about the innards of the saildrive? I know - "How long is a piece of string?" but is there a straightforward test or check to determine if a service; a strip-down and rebuild; or a replacement might be needed...?

Any helpful thoughts...?

Including 'Run - don't walk'.....

 

[sailorbenji]

I'm mulling over a 'project' with a Volvo 14hp engine and a saildrive that has 'seized once' - whatever that means. Now, I'm aware that Volvo engine parts are painfully expensive, but I know nowt about saildrives, apart from their seals occasionally needing replacement.

What's to know about the innards of the saildrive? I know - "How long is a piece of string?" but is there a straightforward test or check to determine if a service; a strip-down and rebuild; or a replacement might be needed...?

Any helpful thoughts...?

Including 'Run - don't walk'.....

Easiest check would be stick it in neutral (engine not running of course), and try and turn the prop by hand. If it's jammed solid you have a problem, if it spins but sounds like a bag of spanners you have a problem still (albeit probably smaller), if it spins fine with no concerning noises, then most likely happy days. If you could then run the engine in gear (safely) forwards and reverse and again check for function and nasty noises, you could probably determine if there's any issues quite conclusively.

Also worth dipping the oil to see how that looks in regards to age/metal shavings and/or water contamination

 

[Tranona]

Having had a saildrive that "seized once" it is important to know why. In my case the clutch packed seized and wrecked all the bearings. Essentially it is not economic, even if you can get the parts to rebuild them except for the lower shaft where there can be issues with seals and worn shafts. These are repairable or replaceable, but anything higher up is terminal. Only the latest drives are available new, but generally retrofit in place of old - But over £4k. secondhand units are £1500 upwards depending on which variant.

Not sure Volvo made a 14hp. The little 2 cylinder have been the 10hp 2001, with a 120 drive, more recent (up to 2005) 13hp 2010 (Perkins engine) with 120 drive and current D1 13 with 130 drive. The main physical distinguishing feature between the drives is the anode - one piece on the 120 and 2 piece on the 130.

Most important indicators of health are first, oil which should be clear and no sign of milkiness from water, second signs of leaking from the lower seals - you need to remove the anode to check this.

Despite the horror stories these units are remarkably robust. The same drive was used on all HPs up to 50, so have an easy life with a little 2 cylinder engine. The weakness is water getting in through damaged or worn seals in the lower end, but easily checked and fixed. My failure was unusual, the consequence of 3500 hours of charter use in the Med, crashing in and out of gear while entertaining onlookers during berthing at town quays with 20 knot cross winds!

What boat is it in?

 

[7Cboy]

May not be relevant, but when my saildrive stopped working (apparently seized) it transpired that the oil level in the gearbox was too low, not having been filled properly at servicing. Topping up to right level solved the problem.

 

[sailaboutvic]

May not be relevant, but when my saildrive stopped working (apparently seized) it transpired that the oil level in the gearbox was too low, not having been filled properly at servicing. Topping up to right level solved the problem.

I would say don't top up to the max level, top to just below it.
But hey that's me .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Has Tranona said the bottom end are cheap and easy to repair seals are off the shelf just make sure the springs are SS.
Score shaft can be repairs with sleeve and damage hub thread can also be repair with heilcore.

 

[scottie]

Having had a saildrive that "seized once" it is important to know why. In my case the clutch packed seized and wrecked all the bearings. Essentially it is not economic, even if you can get the parts to rebuild them except for the lower shaft where there can be issues with seals and worn shafts. These are repairable or replaceable, but anything higher up is terminal. Only the latest drives are available new, but generally retrofit in place of old - But over £4k. secondhand units are £1500 upwards depending on which variant.

Not sure Volvo made a 14hp. The little 2 cylinder have been the 10hp 2001, with a 120 drive, more recent (up to 2005) 13hp 2010 (Perkins engine) with 120 drive and current D1 13 with 130 drive. The main physical distinguishing feature between the drives is the anode - one piece on the 120 and 2 piece on the 130.

Most important indicators of health are first, oil which should be clear and no sign of milkiness from water, second signs of leaking from the lower seals - you need to remove the anode to check this.

Despite the horror stories these units are remarkably robust. The same drive was used on all HPs up to 50, so have an easy life with a little 2 cylinder engine. The weakness is water getting in through damaged or worn seals in the lower end, but easily checked and fixed. My failure was unusual, the consequence of 3500 hours of charter use in the Med, crashing in and out of gear while entertaining onlookers during berthing at town quays with 20 knot cross winds!

What boat is it in?

2001 is single cyl
14HP could be mb7
Volvo are usually well badged apart from guy who take number to spares shop to ensure correct parts
sorting out a seized leg could be anything from removing rope from prop shaft to complete replacement so finding out history is starting point
age of unit may affect value but not cost of finished item

 

[Skylark]

A saildrive is an eloquent solution favouring the boat builder. Fairly simple gearbox technology. Unless there are type-specific “known issues” there’s no reason to doubt their robustness.

My beef with them is that the gaitor needs to be changed with alarming regularity, despite seemingly very little evidence of in-service failures.

Replacing the gaitor is a big job. Mine is a Yanmar and the engine and its ancillaries have to be moved to allow access. I believe that any maintenance should conform to the “first, do no harm” mantra. Mine is now overdue and I’m not keen on getting it changed because, firstly, I don’t imagine that there is anything wrong with it and, secondly, I don’t want a technician scratching or damaging anything in the engine bay while doing it.

 

[sailaboutvic]

A saildrive is an eloquent solution favouring the boat builder. Fairly simple gearbox technology. Unless there are type-specific “known issues” there’s no reason to doubt their robustness.

My beef with them is that the gaitor needs to be changed with alarming regularity, despite seemingly very little evidence of in-service failures.

Replacing the gaitor is a big job. Mine is a Yanmar and the engine and its ancillaries have to be moved to allow access. I believe that any maintenance should conform to the “first, do no harm” mantra. Mine is now overdue and I’m not keen on getting it changed because, firstly, I don’t imagine that there is anything wrong with it and, secondly, I don’t want a technician scratching or damaging anything in the engine bay while doing it.

Agreed I know of a few that's now well over 12 years old andcstill going strong, Mine for one .

 

[Dipper]

I'm in the process of changing my seal for the third time. It doesn't need it but the insurance surveyor was obliged to point out that it was over the 7 years recommended by Volvo. He couldn't say otherwise. The engine is under the cockpit behind the steps with no side access. Some bolts I can just reach (but not see) over the top of the engine but only because it is a single cylinder. To get to the other bolts I have to crawl down a quarter berth, round a 180° bend just in front of the rudder stock and crawl back down a narrow low tunnel. It's only a 26ft boat so there's not a lot of room. I have to get the engine out onto the cockpit sole to give me enough space to extract the saildrive unit into the cabin. Whilst the engine is out, I'm replacing two cockpit drain skin fittings and ball valves that are otherwise inaccessible (but can be operated) with the engine in place.

 

[zoidberg]

I'm beginning to think hard about the old joke when asked for directions - "Well, if I was going there, sir, I wouldn't start from here."

 

[Tranona]

2001 is single cyl
14HP could be mb7
Volvo are usually well badged apart from guy who take number to spares shop to ensure correct parts
sorting out a seized leg could be anything from removing rope from prop shaft to complete replacement so finding out history is starting point
age of unit may affect value but not cost of finished item

Yes, time dims the memory of that horrible single cylinder 2001. Thought about the Mb7, but I think that had a 110S drive. Suspect that a project boat/engine of that vintage is almost certainly in "run away" territory.

 

[scottie]

Yes, time dims the memory of that horrible single cylinder 2001. Thought about the Mb7, but I think that had a 110S drive. Suspect that a project boat/engine of that vintage is almost certainly in "run away" territory.

Op pretty vague just says 14hp Volvo and leaves it to our imagination so what’s new
I suspect that it’s MB10a with 100SD or something slightly newer!

 

[Stemar]

I'm in the process of changing my seal for the third time. It doesn't need it but the insurance surveyor was obliged to point out that it was over the 7 years recommended by Volvo. He couldn't say otherwise. The engine is under the cockpit behind the steps with no side access. Some bolts I can just reach (but not see) over the top of the engine but only because it is a single cylinder. To get to the other bolts I have to crawl down a quarter berth, round a 180° bend just in front of the rudder stock and crawl back down a narrow low tunnel. It's only a 26ft boat so there's not a lot of room. I have to get the engine out onto the cockpit sole to give me enough space to extract the saildrive unit into the cabin. Whilst the engine is out, I'm replacing two cockpit drain skin fittings and ball valves that are otherwise inaccessible (but can be operated) with the engine in place.

I feel your pain! Still, it could be worse. I'm reminded of a review a good few years ago. The boat was fitted with a saildrive, dropped into the hull along with the engine before the lid was glassed on. The only way to change the seal started with an angle grinder to a bulkhead and went downhill from there. The reviewer asked the dealer about this. They replied "Our owners don't keep their boats that long"

 

[Tranona]

I feel your pain! Still, it could be worse. I'm reminded of a review a good few years ago. The boat was fitted with a saildrive, dropped into the hull along with the engine before the lid was glassed on. The only way to change the seal started with an angle grinder to a bulkhead and went downhill from there. The reviewer asked the dealer about this. They replied "Our owners don't keep their boats that long"

That is not normal. Most boats with saildrives do not require any modifications to remove the drive, except to remove the prop and lower seal housing, which gives a good opportunity to change the seals. 2 fitters can do the job easily in a day and DIY 2 days.

What you describe is a fault of the builders, not the drive.

People tend to forget that saildrives have been around for over 40 years and are now the norm rather than the exception. At the same time they forget about the constant stream of questions here about worn cutless bearings, out of alignment shafts, leaky stuffing boxes and all the other ills that affect "conventional" shaft drives.

 

[Stemar]

What you describe is a fault of the builders, not the drive.

Absolutely. I'm not knocking saildrives, just certain installations. While I appreciate the difficulties involved in making stuff accessible in yachts, it does seem that a few builders didn't make any effort.

I still think the ideal would be some sort of steerable azipod drive with no alignment issues. Make it retractable and no pot line issues, at least under sail either. Put two on a twin rudder boat.

 

[Skylark]

Absolutely. I'm not knocking saildrives, just certain installations. While I appreciate the difficulties involved in making stuff accessible in yachts, it does seem that a few builders didn't make any effort.

I absolutely agree with you.

I had a similar discussion with my Dealer and he replied, complete with supercilious grin, that most owners don't keep their boats long enough to worry about having to replace the seals.

 

[Tranona]

Facing this dilemma this year. My Bav is 7 years old in August and I plan to sell it in April/May so no doubt this will come up with potential buyers. My approach will be that the impending replacement is priced into the asking price. Of course will only respond if it is raised by the buyer!