Sail fabrics - help!!

[charles_reed]

Jist to add to conundrum

I had a new main made this year for my B38 , fully battened made by local sailmaker , he used a cloth called vectran , which is a very good dacron with a vectran thread weaved through it , has the long life of dacron and no stretch properties of vectran fibre , also lighter than equiv dacron , sets like a laminate sail , perfectly and will outlive a laminate sail by multiples of years , with no stretch , didnt cost any more than a best dacron sail either , very fast !!! too ,

This cloth was developed by north for superyachts and cost a fortune , now patent expired and available through other suppliers at cost mere mortals can afford , well worth looking into

b38 is one middle sandwidged by two boats with hi tech laminates , 3/4 tonner and sig 38

Vektran should not be confused with conventional polyester cloths - it's considerably stronger, more stable but slightly less UV resistance, and about twice the price of conventional polyester.
Hydranet is a UHDPE re-inforced cloth (Dyneema/Spectra), also woven by Polynant, but in Germany - it's at the outer edge of sailcloth technology and costs are similarly outré. Excellent for cruising/racing, being rather less short-lived than laminates - Personally I think its benefits over Vektran do not justify the price difference.

 

[charles_reed]

No they are not. Suggest you pop into the loft in Wareham next time you are there. And then go over to Poole to Crusader and see the same sort of thing. Plenty of sailmakers in UK making sails themselves, although also some who get them made in China.

Confirmed by my research - all the big-name sailmakers run the cutting programme for their cruiser sails and upload it to their sub-contractors in Viet-Nam or Guangdong. This goes not only for UK big-name producers but also in Greece and France.
If one wants "honest" sails you need to go to the second tier sailmakers such as Crusader, Gowen/Dolphin where you'll get informed advice and plenty of choice from people who've actually sailed competitively.

 

[nigelmercier]

Confirmed by my research - all the big-name sailmakers run the cutting programme for their cruiser sails and upload it to their sub-contractors in Viet-Nam or Guangdong. This goes not only for UK big-name producers but also in Greece and France...

And Spain, as far as I know.

 

[Twister_Ken]

North Radian which is their version of standard Dacron cloth.

Oh no it's not! (sorry, couldn't wait for panto season).

It's woven with the warp straight, not the weft. Good trick.

 

[Tranona]

And Spain, as far as I know.

May well be the case, and as Charles says many of the big international lofts have cruising sails (which to them are bread and butter) made in their far east factories and the local branches do the specialist work. This leaves a significant market in the UK at least for smaller sailmakers who offer a bespoke service for cruising and club racing sailors at a competitive price. Several of them have been mentioned here and there are many others around the country. Others do indeed use far east cutting services and do the finishing locally, and yet others such as Rolly Tasker only sell sails made in the far east.

So, plenty of choice and the method chosen by the different sailmakers may well influence your choice.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hyde sails are made in their own loft in the phillipines so being british i go for their sails where possible. . They also measured up for me
Forget goacher ( had to use rya solicitor to get money back after poor sails) & kemp ( ignorant after sales service & poor sail quality requiring re cutting at new)
All that being said i have just bought a laminate self tacking sail from Ultimate ( made in far east) & it is an improvement on my last 4 st jibs which i have bought in 12 years,

 

[markhomer]

Vektran should not be confused with conventional polyester cloths - it's considerably stronger, more stable but slightly less UV resistance, and about twice the price of conventional polyester.
Hydranet is a UHDPE re-inforced cloth (Dyneema/Spectra), also woven by Polynant, but in Germany - it's at the outer edge of sailcloth technology and costs are similarly outré. Excellent for cruising/racing, being rather less short-lived than laminates - Personally I think its benefits over Vektran do not justify the price difference.

Think you missed the subtlety of my post , point was it is no longer too exspensive infact no more than best dacron .

 

[markhomer]

If he wants radial well then perhaps no the cloth for him , but radial sails developed because that suits the cloth better not that it makes better sail shape , i have a racing cat with pentex radial sail , had a couple , newest sail i got was made off contender maxx which is good for cross cut , the cross cut sail better shape than radial ,

Just saying dont confuse a good sail due to either being radial or crosscut,

With cloth that suits either you get good results , radial are relatively more expensive , more work for sail maker and more wastage

Any way if op wants a radial sail because cloth used will not give a good lasting sail in cross cut thats up to them

Every one has their own preference .

Just wanted to let folk know of this current advantage avail to us all now

 

[KellysEye]

Get a sample of both fabrics then put bright light behind then and use a magnifying glass what you will see the amount of Dacron thread used. Glue is cheap Dacron thread is expensive so the best quality sails have more thread. Thus they last longer before stretching. If they are both the same it might be worth expanding the candidate list. The sails that have the most thread are Hood if you want a comparison.

 

[markhomer]

Hyde sails are made in their own loft in the phillipines so being british i go for their sails where possible. . They also measured up for me
Forget goacher ( had to use rya solicitor to get money back after poor sails) & kemp ( ignorant after sales service & poor sail quality requiring re cutting at new)
All that being said i have just bought a laminate self tacking sail from Ultimate ( made in far east) & it is an improvement on my last 4 st jibs which i have bought in 12 years,

Dont dis someone trying to make a living , i am a sail measurer , rya and irc , ALL manufacturers are capable of bad sails hyde inclusive ! , but,most are good ,

Wonder why your british allegiance goes to a loft making sails abroad seems a contadiction .

 

[dom]

May well be the case, and as Charles says many of the big international lofts have cruising sails (which to them are bread and butter) made in their far east factories and the local branches do the specialist work. This leaves a significant market in the UK at least for smaller sailmakers who offer a bespoke service for cruising and club racing sailors at a competitive price. Several of them have been mentioned here and there are many others around the country. Others do indeed use far east cutting services and do the finishing locally, and yet others such as Rolly Tasker only sell sails made in the far east.

So, plenty of choice and the method chosen by the different sailmakers may well influence your choice.

All good points and not to forget some of the European lofts. I used Elvstrom to make a Hydranet No 1 jib and found it borderline hopeless. I have also used Incidences in La Rochelle who made a main and genny a few years back in a Spectra laminate which I felt a smidge on the pricey side, but went for in the end as the loft seemed so ridiculously excited about the cloth. ....utterly fantastic sails.

 

[Daydream believer]

Wonder why your british allegiance goes to a loft making sails abroad seems a contadiction .

British technology, british owned company, british design plus the profits are british & they still make some sails in uk & employ quite a few people in uk
They also do a lot of research in uk . I have a squib & they have spent a lot of time sail testing to produce the best squib sails