sail drive v shaft on 38 - 40 ft yacht

[noelex]

Tthe proof comes from the market and if there was real resistance to saildrives, builders would not fit them, wheras in fact they are gaining market share.

Almost any consumer product you look at cars, houses, watches, boats etc the greater market share the lower the quality.
Give me a Porsche over a Hyundai every time.
Market share often indicates the lowest possible cost, not the best product.
Builders fit saildrives because they cheap to install. In the same way Hyundai fit their cars with a 4 cylinder 1.5L engines. Its inexpensive and gets the job done, but its not the best alternative.

 

[Lucky Duck]

BTW all the "cheap" Oceanis range from Beneteau still have shaft drive, as do the smaller Jeanneaus.

My old First 31.7 had a Volvo saildrive unit and the new First range being displayed at this year's Southampton boat show all had Yanmar saildrive legs poking out the bottom of them.

 

[Tranona]

My old First 31.7 had a Volvo saildrive unit and the new First range being displayed at this year's Southampton boat show all had Yanmar saildrive legs poking out the bottom of them.

I thought that was the case, which rather goes against the suggestion by others that saildrives are "cheap" when the "up market" range have them, but the bargain basement (Oceanis) doesn't!

 

[doug748]

I thought that was the case, which rather goes against the suggestion by others that saildrives are "cheap" when the "up market" range have them, but the bargain basement (Oceanis) doesn't!

Cheap to fit, probably sums it up better. Less time.

 

[emsworthy]

Almost any consumer product you look at cars, houses, watches, boats etc the greater market share the lower the quality.
Give me a Porsche over a Hyundai every time.

Have you seen the market share that Apple have with the iPhone in the smart-phone market recently?

Not sure many users would agree with your "greater share - lower quality" statement in this instance!

 

[Lucky Duck]

Have you seen the market share that Apple have with the iPhone in the smart-phone market recently?

Not sure many users would agree with your "greater share - lower quality" statement in this instance!

Porsche's reliabilty (second from bottom) compares rather poorly with Hyundai's (6th) so maybe a Hyundia is not such a bad choice after all? See here http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

 

[Tranona]

Cheap to fit, probably sums it up better. Less time.

A builder is interested in the overall cost and suggest there is little in it. The Oceanis uses just about the minimum required for a conventional shaft - a bit of tube bonded into the hull with a bearing liner one end and a Volvo seal the other.

The reality is that saildrives are taking over because they are superior in terms of refinement and have proved themselves reliable and long lived. That is not to say that shaft drive is not reliable and long lived, but as I pointed out earlier the constant stream of threads on these fora on drive train problems suggest that they are not as trouble free as some people like to think.

 

[savageseadog]

The reality is that saildrives are taking over because they are superior in terms of refinement and have proved themselves reliable and long lived. That is not to say that shaft drive is not reliable and long lived, but as I pointed out earlier the constant stream of threads on these fora on drive train problems suggest that they are not as trouble free as some people like to think.

Quite!

A shaft will be best on a long keeled yacht which is probably the most seamanlike yacht design but modern yachts aren't generally built like that so the saildrive is the better solution.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Have you seen the market share that Apple have with the iPhone in the smart-phone market recently?

Not sure many users would agree with your "greater share - lower quality" statement in this instance!

Apple have always been behind Blackberry in the smartphone market share and are now being comprehensively spanked by Android as well. They only did well when they were the only player in town for consumer (as opposed to business) smartphones - they are now heading for the same position as Macs: niche products at the top end of the market. Like Porsche (vs the Android Mondeo) or Oyster (vs the Android Bavaria).

 

[Twister_Ken]

A rough count of smart phones in any London Tube carriage will come down heavily in favour of the iPhone.

 

[Sailfree]

Personal experience with charter boats with heavy engine use.

Dufour 36 Saildrive

in 3 years volvo saildrive splined shaft/ volvo folding prob gave problems and both replaced every 10 months

Dufour 38 saildrive

in 1st year volvo engine seized and had to be replaced, in 2nd year volvo clutch went and for all 3 years water kept getting into saildrive leg , seal replaced repeatedly.

in 4th year year saildrive leg sheared off completely, complete Volvo engine & saildrive replaced at extra expense with Yanmar unit . In next 5 yrs Yanmar saildrive gave no problems.

Jeanneau 43 Shaft drive- Yanmar unit

In 6 yrs cutlass bearing replaced once and shaftseal replaced at same time as a precaution.

Personally I prefer a shaft drive but more important Yanmar units.

 

[Sailfree]

Almost any consumer product you look at cars, houses, watches, boats etc the greater market share the lower the quality.
Give me a Porsche over a Hyundai every time.
Market share often indicates the lowest possible cost, not the best product.
Builders fit saildrives because they cheap to install. In the same way Hyundai fit their cars with a 4 cylinder 1.5L engines. Its inexpensive and gets the job done, but its not the best alternative.

I agree also I was told Volvo supply engines FOC to manufacturers and only invoice when boat is sold. Be interested to know if its true.

 

[Sailfree]

My old First 31.7 had a Volvo saildrive unit and the new First range being displayed at this year's Southampton boat show all had Yanmar saildrive legs poking out the bottom of them.

On our charter fleet 8yrs ago 80% of the boats had Volvo units now Volvo share is down to approx 45%.

Not sure whether I was unlucky but certainly the complete absence of after sales customer concern (they just fob you off and deny any responsibility) resulted in me never ever buying another new boat with any Volvo bits. When I bought the Jeanneau 43 the dufour 44 and Elan 43 were serious contenders but as both had Volvo units it only left me the Jeanneau 43 to purchase.

 

[doug748]

Personal experience with charter boats with heavy engine use..........

Personally I prefer a shaft drive but more important Yanmar units.

That sounds like a nightmare Sailfree.
Just in case I am ever tempted to change my boat.....
What size of bills do you get with these saildrive problems?

 

[cloud7]

Personal experience with charter boats with heavy engine use.

Dufour 36 Saildrive

in 3 years volvo saildrive splined shaft/ volvo folding prob gave problems and both replaced every 10 months

Dufour 38 saildrive

in 1st year volvo engine seized and had to be replaced, in 2nd year volvo clutch went and for all 3 years water kept getting into saildrive leg , seal replaced repeatedly.

in 4th year year saildrive leg sheared off completely, complete Volvo engine & saildrive replaced at extra expense with Yanmar unit . In next 5 yrs Yanmar saildrive gave no probl
Jeanneau 43 Shaft drive- Yanmar unit

In 6 yrs cutlass bearing replaced once and shaftseal replaced at same time as a precaution.

Personally I prefer a shaft drive but more important Yanmar units.

As charter yachts can you give a guide as to the number of engine hours , type of clients/
use etc. thks

 

[Sailfree]

As charter yachts can you give a guide as to the number of engine hours , type of clients/
use etc. thks

Dufour 36 was with Hamble School of Yachting mostly school work under a YM instructor but a few bare boat charters, Volvo folding Prop went about every 400 hrs. After 2nd one replaced it with another make and no probs.

Dufour 38 was 70% bare boat charters. 30% Yachtmaster skippers. Engine seized immediately after I used it for 9 days and I know it was not abused and fine during my usage, 13months old and 420hrs. Volvo did not want to know and Volvo dealer had 2 other engines in at same time with seizing of middle cylinder (2030 & 2040 engines) cost about £4000 IIRC. Clutch went about 700hrs (2yr) Volvo dealer was unhappy trying to replace it and convinced me to go for a complete exchange gearbox IIRC complete with saildrive leg. (again IIRC circa £3000) Water in Oil of saildrive leg was noticed at every 12 month liftout. replaced seal and oil each time. Sold boat at 1100hrs (3yrs - but it stayed on fleet. Saildrive leg sheared off outside Cherbourg some 7 months later. I personally think the shaft seized but insurance paid out against possible collision with a submerged object. New owner decided enough with Volvo (he also had trouble with water in oil) and paid approx extra £1000 over insurance payout for new engine for bearers etc to change complete Volvo saildrive to Yanmar. Charter Co stated that it transformed the boat and he has had no probs in last 4.5yrs.

Current Yanmar in 43DS is 5yrs old and approx 1200hrs & no probs.

All the boat engines etc were regularly serviced by authorised engine manufacturers agents.

For me to buy anything volvo ever again would be the triumph of optimism over experience. Its their total denial of any responsibility, total lack of any goodwill gestures that really p*ssed me off. There have been other probs with Volvo's on the fleet but i don't know the details to report factually.

 

[cloud7]

Dufour 36 was with Hamble School of Yachting mostly school work under a YM instructor but a few bare boat charters, Volvo folding Prop went about every 400 hrs. After 2nd one replaced it with another make and no probs.

Dufour 38 was 70% bare boat charters. 30% Yachtmaster skippers. Engine seized immediately after I used it for 9 days and I know it was not abused and fine during my usage, 13months old and 420hrs. Volvo did not want to know and Volvo dealer had 2 other engines in at same time with seizing of middle cylinder (2030 & 2040 engines) cost about £4000 IIRC. Clutch went about 700hrs (2yr) Volvo dealer was unhappy trying to replace it and convinced me to go for a complete exchange gearbox IIRC complete with saildrive leg. (again IIRC circa £3000) Water in Oil of saildrive leg was noticed at every 12 month liftout. replaced seal and oil each time. Sold boat at 1100hrs (3yrs - but it stayed on fleet. Saildrive leg sheared off outside Cherbourg some 7 months later. I personally think the shaft seized but insurance paid out against possible collision with a submerged object. New owner decided enough with Volvo (he also had trouble with water in oil) and paid approx extra £1000 over insurance payout for new engine for bearers etc to change complete Volvo saildrive to Yanmar. Charter Co stated that it transformed the boat and he has had no probs in last 4.5yrs.

Current Yanmar in 43DS is 5yrs old and approx 1200hrs & no probs.

All the boat engines etc were regularly serviced by authorised engine manufacturers agents.

For me to buy anything volvo ever again would be the triumph of optimism over experience. Its their total denial of any responsibility, total lack of any goodwill gestures that really p*ssed me off. There have been other probs with Volvo's on the fleet but i don't know the details to report factually.

Comprehensive report , clearly yanmar sail drive the better choice , thks for info.