Sail boat running costs..

[wipe_out]

Hi All,

Firstly a disclaimer - I have no idea when it comes to sail boats and have never been sailing in my life..

So the story is that I have a 26ft power boat in Brighton Marina and have been looking for something a bit larger with more accommodation etc.. The things that are concerning me is that not only does the price of the boat ramp up quite quickly with an increase in length but so to do the running costs if you actually want to go anywhere outside of the marina.. With the price of fuel a short trip is starting to become pretty expensive, then on top of that there is the servicing costs for two engines and out drives..

This got me thinking about perhaps considering a sail boat.. Obviously I need to experience sailing first because I may not get on with it at all.. I might chat to some of the guys in the marina and perhaps someone wouldn't mind me coming along.. What I am interested in though is what the running and maintenance costs are associated with sail boats.. There is still an engine to service and antifouling etc. but then there is all the rigging, winches, sails and possibly other things..

Admittedly from the outside with no experience sailing looks quite daunting with so many ropes leading back to the cockpit, I envisage a huge tangle of rope not long after doing anything.. I am sure once you have an idea though it's not that bad..

Thanks for any feedback..

 

[prv]

It's a bit of a piece of string question. As far as the rig is concerned, it's rarely essential to update or replace anything, and there are plenty of people pottering around with gear untouched for twenty years. They would sail a lot better with new sails, and their lives might be made easier with soft new ropes and low-friction fittings, but it all still works up to a point. On the other hand, keen racers might be replacing sails after a couple of years, and many people like to replace standing rigging (the wire parts) every ten years at a grand or so.

General boat costs (berthing, antifoul, etc) will probably be similar.

Engine costs could be dramatically less. Yacht engines are pretty low-tech compared to motorboat engines, so it's much more common to service them yourself than it seems to be in mobo-world. Service parts anywhere from twenty quid to maybe a hundred quid max depending on the engine.

Costs of using the boat to go places are obviously in a different league - I basically don't even think about it. Unless you have a week of flat calms, you'll probably spend more on dinner than diesel. Sailing boats also seem to be more likely than motorboats to overnight at anchor rather than in expensive marinas - I guess because motorboat systems are built around an assumption of abundant electrical power from the engines (I hear even electric cookers are common?) and it all runs out of puff if you can't plug into the national grid when stopped.

There is a bit of a different attitude to get your head around, though, which comes from the great difference in speed. With motorboats it's about the destination - with sailing boats it's about the journey. Sailing itself is the activity you're out there for, arriving at a nice destination is a bonus. If you're thinking only about the place you're going, and the travel time is just the means to that end, you're liable to get frustrated at five knots!

Pete

 

[johnalison]

How long is a piece of rope?

As you appreciate, the costs go up with boat size, roughly according to the cube of the length, unlike the speed, which goes up according to the square root. Big boats are BAD VALUE. On the other hand, they are a lot more comfortable and can be more easily taken out in worse weather.

Power-boat owners are often surprised at how much space sailing boats have, since the engine takes up little space. If you service your own engine, the main costs are those from mooring, general maintenance such as antifouling and sails which don't come cheap.

If you play your cards right, you can sell a sailing boat for as much as or more than you paid for it, though having £10,000 to £200,000, say, invested in a boat is a personal choice.

 

[wipe_out]

Power-boat owners are often surprised at how much space sailing boats have, since the engine takes up little space.

Yes, I have been looking online at the low to mid 30 footers and some have 3 double berths or two doubles and a huge space for storage.. Definitely appealing..

 

[photodog]

We have a 31 foot boat from 1999.

Two double cabins, plus two singles onthe saloon, a good sized heads, and lots of storage.

If you buy Correctly depreciation is not a major cost...

Fuel is a none issue for us... Maybe two tanks a season.. Ergo £80 or so.

There is maintanence that needs to be costed... But a lot of this is not beyond the realms ofthe competent DIY guy...

Big costs over time include saildrive gasket.. £1000 every 13 years for us.... New sails... £2000 every 14 years for us!

And of course the normal every day wear and tear...

Including a marina berth I budget around 5k per annum. Last two years I have spent more due to replacing a sail and sail drive seal....

It's the little toys that get you... But I doubt this is any different for a powerboat owner.

But the best bit of sailing is the actual sailing... The satisfaction of running your wn small yacht and getting from place to place using the wind... Can't be underestimated. It's different from a mobo, the pleasure comes from a different place.

 

[stuartwineberg]

Great Question

We've wandered between medium sized sailboats (30 footish), medium power boats (36 footish) and back to small power (25 feet). I have a recollection that small things tended to break more often on sail boats - sail sliders, things tearing, guard wires fraying, awkward things at the top of the mast breaking like masthead bulbs and stuff jamming where I couldn't reach it like inside the mast. Also some things are just more stressed like the side forces on the rudder bearings. A sense of small continuous spend. The big power boat eventually made me paranoid. Nearly a grand to fill up and a real fear that if something gave up in the engine it could be in the tens of thousands - took a lot of the pleasure away. Small powerboat is - well - small - wouldn't want to cross the Channel in her - never as confident in a beam sea as I would be in a sailboat but depreciation has gone out of her, mechanically simple and unstressed apart from the engine and drive train which is pretty simple and fixable in my budget. Huge fun to use in the Solent - gets us everywhere we need and fine for 2 people.

I would guess the running costs on the small powerboat are similar to a 30 foot sailyacht - fuel costs on one offset by wear and tear on the other but it all depends on how you use it, age condition etc.

All IMHO and one things for sure there will be people with very different views on the forum

 

[maby]

Wot Pete said!

Berthing costs will be pretty much identical for the same length of boat - though you generally need a longer sailing boat for the same amount of accommodation because they tend to be lower and don't carry their beam so far forwards.

Fuel is obviously cheaper - can be a lot cheaper depending in how you use it - you could go all the way round the world on a few tens of gallons if you really wanted to. Engine maintenance should be a fair bit cheaper - you can do most things yourself - and you really should not be using it very much - otherwise you should buy a Mobo. Rigging and sails will not last for ever and are expensive to replace, but with a little care, you can keep them going a long time.

 

[awol]

Unlike power boats sailing boats cost less per mile the further you go but the time spent getting places is considerably greater. I'd recommend that the OP finds out if the simple act of sailing a boat turns him on - if it doesn't then it is likely that the boat will spend a lot of time parked.
As for costs - about £200/ft p.a. with the threat of bigger expenses of engines, masts, etc..

 

[maby]

Unlike power boats sailing boats cost less per mile the further you go but the time spent getting places is considerably greater. I'd recommend that the OP finds out if the simple act of sailing a boat turns him on - if it doesn't then it is likely that the boat will spend a lot of time parked.
As for costs - about £200/ft p.a. with the threat of bigger expenses of engines, masts, etc..

I've never understood these simple formulae that relate running costs to either length or purchase price. It is certainly true that there is a broadly linear relationship between length and berthing fees, but after that, the relationships begin to break down. The cost of antifouling is also closely linked to size but the frequency of other repairs and cost of them is far less closely linked to size or purchase price. Your chosen location is also very critical in the sums. We have a 43 which - by your figures - should come to £8,600 p.a. Berthing is coming to around £3000, leaving more than £5000 for what? OK - insurance was around £900 this year, but I had not shopped around - now have quotes of more like £700 for next year. I just had an engine service done professionally for about £100 and I'll probably spend around £300 in diesel - but quite a lot of that will go through the Eberspacher. I would hope to get at least five years out of the sails and the teak decking will need replacing in ten to fifteen years at a cost of around £10,000 - we are still not getting close to that £5000 p.a.

OK - we bought the boat from a dealer in the Hamble and the cost of a berth there was closer to £10,000 p.a. - but not many of us spend such sums on berthing - most of us can find something substantially cheaper.

 

[Ripster]

We changed over from Power to sail around 18 months ago. 33ft twin engine FB fuel guzzler to a 37ft AWB. The big difference IMO is the time it takes to get anywhere - 5 to 7 knots - thats it. But.... we now go out in and have sailed through seas and winds that we would never have gone out in before. Mainly because if you don't, you never go anywhere and you can't run away at 30kns like before! But, going over to sail has made us more confident and better Sea-farers and we now have a much greater understanding (and respect) for the Sea and her moods. The boat, being a modern AWB looks after us and when we mess it up out there, she rounds up and allows us to reset things! You get used to lines and sheets being everywhere and there is always plenty to do with tacking, gybing and trimming. The leany over bit takes a bit of getting used to, but you can always heave-to and rest for lunch - it does actually work. My advice would be to go out sailing a few times in a similar size vessel to one you fancy to see if its for you. I joined up with a race crew (mainly as ballast at first!) but soon got the idea and loved it. If you do decide to sail, you will be very surprised at how excited you can get over doing an extra 1/2 knot!

 

[MissFitz]

Others on here are better placed to comment on the costs of running a boat, but just to note that if you want to have a go at sailing Brighton Marina Yacht Club are currently running their Club Class course. Basically, a number of the boats from the race fleet volunteer to take out newbies for five Saturdays in the autumn. It's billed as an introduction to racing but lots of the people who go on it have no sailing experience at all, & everyone is very friendly & helpful.

Cost is £160 for five sessions - the first one was last week but I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem about joining now (and if it is, there'll be another course in the spring).

Obviously the cost of running a race boat will be significantly higher than that of a similar sized cruiser, but going out on one is a great way to learn about actual sailing & (IMO) much more fun than starting on a cruiser.

http://www.bmyc.org.uk/clubclass/

 

[wipe_out]

We changed over from Power to sail around 18 months ago. 33ft twin engine FB fuel guzzler to a 37ft AWB. The big difference IMO is the time it takes to get anywhere - 5 to 7 knots - thats it. But.... we now go out in and have sailed through seas and winds that we would never have gone out in before. Mainly because if you don't, you never go anywhere and you can't run away at 30kns like before! But, going over to sail has made us more confident and better Sea-farers and we now have a much greater understanding (and respect) for the Sea and her moods. The boat, being a modern AWB looks after us and when we mess it up out there, she rounds up and allows us to reset things! You get used to lines and sheets being everywhere and there is always plenty to do with tacking, gybing and trimming. The leany over bit takes a bit of getting used to, but you can always heave-to and rest for lunch - it does actually work. My advice would be to go out sailing a few times in a similar size vessel to one you fancy to see if its for you. I joined up with a race crew (mainly as ballast at first!) but soon got the idea and loved it. If you do decide to sail, you will be very surprised at how excited you can get over doing an extra 1/2 knot!

Thanks for posting your experience.. I have to admit the "leany over bit" is largely why I need to actually get out and experience sailing because I am not sure how I will get on with that..

 

[[70521]]

Thanks for posting your experience.. I have to admit the "leany over bit" is largely why I need to actually get out and experience sailing because I am not sure how I will get on with that..

It's actually quite fun. Just make sure everything is where it should be otherwise things get broken.

 

[Windy_Stu]

Thanks for posting your experience.. I have to admit the "leany over bit" is largely why I need to actually get out and experience sailing because I am not sure how I will get on with that..

Ah well we went from 33ft power to 35ft Cat... so no leaning, and possibly a bit faster than a similar sized mono.... now space.... now you are talking our cat is vast compared to both our old Windy and just about any 35ft mono I have been on... We swapped sow could take a couple of years out and sail to the med ( in Corsica at the moment ) got to say I think cats are the way forward, especially if you are living on board! better at anchor, better down wind, only compromise is upwind not as good as a mono.... Only issue I would have is where can you get to in a weekend from Brighton at 5kts.... especially if you have the tide against... still as others have said, its about the journey... after a year on board I'm not sure I quite get that.... its still nice to get somewhere not just sail about a bit and end up where you started

Oh and yes after a 40kt Windy I never thought I would get excited by squeezing a extra 0.5kt from .... but I do!

best of luck with whatever you decide to do

Stu

 

[Tony Cross]

Don't worry about the bits of string. As one of my early instructors told me (in jest of course) "just pull any rope you like and note what the boat does, because if you want the boat to do that again, that's the rope you pull". Simples.

 

[prv]

Don't worry about the bits of string. As one of my early instructors told me (in jest of course) "just pull any rope you like and note what the boat does, because if you want the boat to do that again, that's the rope you pull". Simples.

I think that's more or less how I learned to sail, chucked into an Optimist on Emsworth Mill Pond at a very early age.

It becomes less and less of a good idea, the bigger the boat you try it in

Pete

 

[wipe_out]

Don't worry about the bits of string. As one of my early instructors told me (in jest of course) "just pull any rope you like and note what the boat does, because if you want the boat to do that again, that's the rope you pull". Simples.

Haha.. Yes, that's how I've learnt most things.. Of course attempting it in a mid 30ft sail boat probably isn't the same as a little dingy or similar.. Maybe I should buy a little dingy first, should drop the running costs significantly but sleeping on her will be a bit uncomfortable and frikken cold..

 

[aquaholic]

Made the move from a mobo 5 years ago and never looked back, in fact the wife has really fallen in love with sailing. As previously stated you will learn so much more from sailing than you ever will from behind the wheel of a motorboat, I have learnt more in the last 5 years than I ever did in 25 years of motorboating, and have traveled so much further. Conquer the leaning over bit and it's done! Best way to do that is go racing......you will soon learn that they don't actually fall over

As for cost......it will be a weight of your shoulders. Trust me

 

[dylanwinter]

We changed over from Power to sail around 18 months ago. 33ft twin engine FB fuel guzzler to a 37ft AWB. The big difference IMO is the time it takes to get anywhere - 5 to 7 knots - thats it. But.... we now go out in and have sailed through seas and winds that we would never have gone out in before. Mainly because if you don't, you never go anywhere and you can't run away at 30kns like before! But, going over to sail has made us more confident and better Sea-farers and we now have a much greater understanding (and respect) for the Sea and her moods. The boat, being a modern AWB looks after us and when we mess it up out there, she rounds up and allows us to reset things! You get used to lines and sheets being everywhere and there is always plenty to do with tacking, gybing and trimming. The leany over bit takes a bit of getting used to, but you can always heave-to and rest for lunch - it does actually work. My advice would be to go out sailing a few times in a similar size vessel to one you fancy to see if its for you. I joined up with a race crew (mainly as ballast at first!) but soon got the idea and loved it. If you do decide to sail, you will be very surprised at how excited you can get over doing an extra 1/2 knot!

well done - great post

you have such a wonderful attitude

seven knots.....not sure what such a speed would feel like being a four knot sh!t box sailer

D

3 gallons of four star from the Humber to Scotland

 

[stuartwineberg]

+1

well done - great post

you have such a wonderful attitude

seven knots.....not sure what such a speed would feel like being a four knot sh!t box sailer

D

3 gallons of four star from the Humber to Scotland

Indeed - I have already posted on this thread but I share Dylan's appreciation of the way you expressed how you feel about the change over. The phrase "getting your sea legs" is literally true on a yacht. The first time it tips you take a quick inhale of breath and then after a few minutes you realise the boat is meant to be like that - all the back and foot rests that seemed to be at the wrong angle in the marina are now exactly right for you to brace yourself. The awkward feeling of standing behind a wheel is replaced when you realise that you don't usually do that under way and can now sit on the side and look under the sail and steer at the same time as the sea whooshes past you (as long as you have someone looking out on the upwind side!!) or you can sit up wind and have a great view forward