sail battens - who needs them?

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

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www.keepturningleft.co.uk
No battens in my sails.

The Pardeys advocate battenless mainsails for less wear in long-distance cruising (but then they also advocate non-rolling headsails and paraffin navigation lights so aren't exactly a beacon of mainstream opinion :) )

Depends how much roach you want.

Pete
 
Eric Hiscock ('Cruising Under Sail' etc) didn't have them and most in mast furling mains don't have them.

I'm thinking of having my next mainsail made without battens so that I can drop it off wind.

There is some loss of mainsail area but I don't suppose that will matter much
 
I've now had two boats with full battens, a 28footer and a 33footer.

Battens kept my 28footer powered up well in light airs and without lazy jacks it was simple to drop the main in a reasonable manner and get tied down single handed.

Battens on my 33footer with lazy jacks are a pain as they can get caught up when hoisting or reefing, but the fact that I now have a boom bag/cover (or whatever its name is) , makes up a bit for that.

Some Twister owners go very fast with or without loose footed mains others with or without full battens. Its really how good a sailor you are and how you set the boat up which is most important.

If you'r like me you just practice, read, listen and experiment 'til it feels right and seems to work best.
 
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I cruised for three years with a batten-less, roach-less, headboard-less main. It was great, the lack of a roach reduced the sail area just enough to reduce the slightly excessive weatherhelm.

I didn't, however, circumnavigate the River Nene with such a sail - that Dylan just loves to dice with death.
 
I learned a lot on the Nene

Salty John said:
I cruised for three years with a batten-less, roach-less, headboard-less main. It was great, the lack of a roach reduced the sail area just enough to reduce the slightly excessive weatherhelm.

I didn't, however, circumnavigate the River Nene with such a sail - that Dylan just loves to dice with death.
Click to expand...

Not dangerous - just great fun

and I learned alot from the Nene

I learned that sail is a perfectly viable source of forwards motion when on the canals and narrow rivers.

Just because you do not have enough space to beat does not mean that it is impossible to sail

that gives me, at the very worst 180 degrees of travel when I can turn the outboard or engine off

and as long as dropping the mast is easy - and it is on the slug - then its worth doing to get rid of the infernal noise.

I wanted to keep the rig light - in the end - when the wind was strong I removed the boom and wrapped the shole sail - topper style before dropping it

I knew that the boom gooseneck would not take the punishment - and I did not want the extra weight.

Initially I was going to go complteley loose footed on the main

but it soon started to annoy me downwind

so I started using the spinnaker pole - it was a bit short

I gave up with the mainsheet for lots of the time - on the run the shounds stopped it - on a fetch or a reach I found myself holding it like a windsurfing sail.

all round we got in some great sailing.

So Salty John - put up a mast and do some sailing on your canals

and it is so much quieter than the broads in summer

I now consider myself not only a thin water sailor - buit also a narrow water sailor

Dylan
 
Salty John said:
I cruised for three years with a batten-less, roach-less, headboard-less main. It was great, the lack of a roach reduced the sail area just enough to reduce the slightly excessive weatherhelm.

I didn't, however, circumnavigate the River Nene with such a sail - that Dylan just loves to dice with death.
Click to expand...

How do you 'circumnavigate' a river? :)
I'd certainly go without battens and I'd have a loose foot on the sail doing what Dylans doing.

By the way Dylan, a bit of artistry coming out from you with the very peaceful trip up the dean with only the sounds of the water and the wildlife on most of the track. Good stuff! How much of that is done on the Xacti or is that from your more recent Panasonic?

p.s.
I took the new pink Xacti to Turkey and did some under water shots as well as the usual. A bit wobbly but got better as time went on.
The 3-5 second shots advised by some were a success too which even kept my 94 yr old mother awake long enough to see 25 mins of video, as yet uncut. Mum loves the DVD's Dylan, thanks

I find the Xacti a little tricky to operate fully and smoothly with one hand and found that I needed to steady the display screen to get better control of zoom etc.......... I need bigger hands with more fingers!

The pink Xacti came in at well under £200 and at the time Amazon couldn't get black as the parts were unavailable from Japan and so they made it a silly price of £360+
 
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So to humour a non-expert, My main has the normal batten pockets up the leach and funnily enough I accidentally snapped one of the battens (at the top of the sail) a week or so ago.

Should I replace it (which is easily done) or am I losing very little by losing it?
 
circumnavigate a river

Scotty_Tradewind said:
How do you 'circumnavigate' a river? :)
I'd certainly go without battens and I'd have a loose foot on the sail doing what Dylans doing.

By the way Dylan, a bit of artistry coming out from you with the very peaceful trip up the dean with only the sounds of the water and the wildlife on most of the track. Good stuff! How much of that is done on the Xacti or is that from your more recent Panasonic?

p.s.
I took the new pink Xacti to Turkey and did some under water shots as well as the usual. A bit wobbly but got better as time went on.
The 3-5 second shots advised by some were a success too which even kept my 94 yr old mother awake long enough to see 25 mins of video, as yet uncut. Mum loves the DVD's Dylan, thanks

I find the Xacti a little tricky to operate fully and smoothly with one hand and found that I needed to steady the display screen to get better control of zoom etc.......... I need bigger hands with more fingers!

The pink Xacti came in at well under £200 and at the time Amazon couldn't get black as the parts were unavailable from Japan and so they made it a silly price of £360+
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I sailed up it one way and then back down the other side - passing most of the boat port to port - so I sort of circumnavigated it.

Thanks for the comments - the films were a bit of an experiemnt - it does seem that some people really liked them

but it is my guess you have to come at them with a glass of whisky if you are to watch them in the right frame of mind

Not sure if I will repeat the excercise

a lot of uploading against the clock

but I enjoyed doing it


who knows.... one day we might take the slug through to the med

Dylan

PS - the cameras behaved immaculately

I used all three at different times
 
Yes, replace it. The roach on a mainsail needs the battens to hold it out.

A sail without battens usually has to be cut without a roach. In Dylans case he uses a stiff material made from recycled Pac-a-macs to achieve a stand-up roach without battens, but he has a huge R&D department working on these innovations - beyond the purse of most of us.
 
Salty John said:
Yes, replace it. The roach on a mainsail needs the battens to hold it out.

A sail without battens usually has to be cut without a roach. In Dylans case he uses a stiff material made from recycled Pac-a-macs to achieve a stand-up roach without battens, but he has a huge R&D department working on these innovations - beyond the purse of most of us.
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:) Thanks John. The miracle of Pac-a-mac science is way beyond my basic comprehension.
 
Roach monkeys

Salty John said:
Yes, replace it. The roach on a mainsail needs the battens to hold it out.

A sail without battens usually has to be cut without a roach. In Dylans case he uses a stiff material made from recycled Pac-a-macs to achieve a stand-up roach without battens, but he has a huge R&D department working on these innovations - beyond the purse of most of us.
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as per usual KTL is a leaky organisation. We do indeed have a team of fine young men who are generally referred to as the "Roach Monkeys". They worked their way along the banks of the Nene looking for the slug tied up in the bushes for the evening. They carried rucksacks of stiffening unguent which they applied to the leach of the sail under cover of darkness.

I can safely announce that Salty John will soon be selling "KTL Roach Unguent (TM) " at £25 a litre.

Early orders will be available for £50 a pint.

We do remind readers that removing battens without several coast of "Roach Unguent" could result in severe damage to your sails.

Buy some today - forever end the tyranny of the batten.

Dylan
 
Salty John said:
Yes, replace it. The roach on a mainsail needs the battens to hold it out.

A sail without battens usually has to be cut without a roach. In Dylans case he uses a stiff material made from recycled Pac-a-macs to achieve a stand-up roach without battens, but he has a huge R&D department working on these innovations - beyond the purse of most of us.
Click to expand...

yip, I had sails made for a 17 foot gaff ketch and for that size of boat I went for a "hollow leech" ie. a straight line from head to clew MINUS 1". performs very well.
 
I liked the "scandalized" main when slowing down.

Not often you see that done now.

From what I can understand from sail trim books, roach is designed more for " wind release " than increased sail area.

In other words less drag and turbulence equals more speed. How much I have no idea.

I think I remember reading that the Spitfire elliptical wing was the forerunner in all of this. Or was it KTL Industries ?

All I know is that converting to fully battened from ordinary battened has made my boat go much faster with no downsides yet ( 3 years ).
 
To scandalise a main in this day and age is one hell of an ordeal.
I would love to do it but Bermudan Sloop Rig is decidedly unfriendly for the puropse...what with the topping lift, vang and trveller assembly to grapple with...pity...looks good....very seamanlike.
 
depowering

just raising the topping lift takes all the drive out of the main

seems pretty simple

I will sometimes do it when motoring for a short distance to get around to the next bend in the river

I really enjoyed the river sailing

and when a squall comes through - shelter is just yards away

great

Dylan
 
Battens in the main sail

I like battens in the mainsail. In fact I know of some boats with battens in the leach of the jib. I have used them myself from time to time.
A leach that flutters is very annoying and must be inefficient.

The ideal shape for the end of any foil is eliptical. This tends to minimise the air flow over the end of the foil. (sail) A pointed end (top) for a mainsail tends to waste power from the top of the sail as well as being bad for the induced drag of the flow of air from one side to the other across the top.
Many modern sail designs have a huge roach at the top held out by battens to approach this eliptical shape. So it is more of a concern at the top than the middle of the leach to a have a roach.

I get a bit sad that cruising sailors will continually compromise the sailing efficiency of their boats to make them easier to handle. Any sail boat is meant to sail and as well as possible olewill
 
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