Saiing with a cutter rig

B

biscuit

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 Aug 2007
Messages
399
Visit site
I have been looking at older cruising boats in the 34 ft plus range, some of which are cutters.
As I usually sail short handed, and have never sailed a cutter, I am interested to know the pros and cons of sail handling.
Some designs seem to have the inner forestay well forward: does this cause problems when going about and short- tacking?
 
My first (old) boat had a cutter rig. Rather nice - headsails are manageable size, two slots to draw nicely, bit like a gearbox - drop the jib to reduce sail and maintain the staysail, then I use to put the jib in place of the staysail if it was blowy (had hanked on sails). Jib did have to wrestle itself past the inner stay but generally it worked ok. Some boats have a self tacking stay sail arrangement which is quite nice. Short tacking was generally easier without the jib of course so if I was going up a creek, I would drop the jib.
 
I believe that in tight arrangements you need to furl-unfurl the Genoa to tack/gybe (a little silly IMHO). I'd love to have a cutter rig - with spaced-out forestay/inner stay!

I hate sailing with a half-furled genoa...
 
The folks I've talked with a staysail had to furl the genoa, tack and then unfurl it, if the genoa keeps rubbing as it goes past the stay then chafe will occur. However staysails are generally used in strong winds when the genoa is furled or light winds to increase sail area. So many boats have a removable stay details from a forum post here: http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-346787.html
 
KellysEye said:
The folks I've talked with a staysail had to furl the genoa, tack and then unfurl it, if the genoa keeps rubbing as it goes past the stay then chafe will occur. However staysails are generally used in strong winds when the genoa is furled or light winds to increase sail area. So many boats have a removable stay details from a forum post here: http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-346787.html
Click to expand...

A proper cutter won't need to do that - Kindred Spirit had plenty of room for the jib to pass in front of the staysail and I would short-tack down the river singlehanded with both set. But yes, there are a lot of boats with a sort of auxiliary staysail crammed in, which might have to compromise.

Pete
 
I have a 44 ft cutter and single hand it some of the time. The genoa is on a roller furler, the staysail is hank on and the inner forestay can be detached and tied back out of the way

Tacking the genoa with the inner forestay in place can be done but not quickly and some times it is necessary to go forward. So if I know I am going to be making multiple tacks I decide which headsail to use that day and if it is the genoa I will release the forestay and bring it back out of the way.

However as I sail in the Eastern Caribbean where we usually have plenty of wind I am more often on the staysail and reefed main. This is when I really appreciate having a cutter as the boat is nicely balanced with this combination and easy to talk..
 
We have a cutter rig as well. Ours has a removable inner forestay that is actually the halyard that pulls up the cutter-sail. The luff (?) of the cutter sail has this anti-torsion line sewn into it. This all is connected to a Selden CX furler (not the GX). This is an excellent setup for sailing at sea. For the inland waterways (we have a lot of them here) we can remove the lot, tie the halyard to the base of the mast and change the Yankee sail with a High aspect.
Best of both worlds.
At sea the cutter-rig is fantastic. Much easier to handle then a High Aspect because of the required effort to handle the sheets. We also think the boat "feels" more in control.
 
MagicalArmchair said:
My father used to single hand Wanda (http://wanda1930.info/), and she is a heavy 1930s gaff cutter - two hefty self tailing winches helped immensely on short tacking! We never had any problems with the staysail (there is good space between the jib and staysail on her).
Click to expand...

If you get the timing right, on a heavy gaff cutter, you can get the jib and staysail both fully hauled in when going about without needing any significant force. I can do this single handed on my gaff cutter - 53ft LOD, 67ft LOA and 32 tons (with fuel and water). No need for any winching....
 
aluijten said:
We have a cutter rig as well. Ours has a removable inner forestay that is actually the halyard that pulls up the cutter-sail. The luff (?) of the cutter sail has this anti-torsion line sewn into it. This all is connected to a Selden CX furler (not the GX). This is an excellent setup for sailing at sea. For the inland waterways (we have a lot of them here) we can remove the lot, tie the halyard to the base of the mast and change the Yankee sail with a High aspect.
Click to expand...

If I've understood that right, it sounds like a modern interpretation of a Wykeham Martin gear on a gaff cutter's jib, except applied to the staysail instead. It's interesting that traditionally the staysail was the "core" sail, with the jib outside it somewhat removeable, but now it's the staysail that's sometimes cleared away.

Pete
 
We've had our sloop converted to a slutter; both inner and outer forestays on furling gear. If short tacking we use the jib, we use the genoa in lighter breezes on longer passages. Very pleased with the setup. In stronger winds when beating we are much closer winded with the jib compared to a partly furled genoa.
 
prv said:
If I've understood that right, it sounds like a modern interpretation of a Wykeham Martin gear on a gaff cutter's jib, except applied to the staysail instead. It's interesting that traditionally the staysail was the "core" sail, with the jib outside it somewhat removeable, but now it's the staysail that's sometimes cleared away.

Pete
Click to expand...

Yeah, the analogy is there yes. The difference is that there is no real cutterstay anymore. The end of the halyard sits directly next to the point where it enters/exits the mast and and it's looped through a turning block that attaches to the top halyard swivel. The anti-torsion line makes sure the sail furls evenly. Obviously you cannot partly furl it but that is no problem as it's only 16 square meter or so. It's the combination with the Yankee that makes it great.
Because the halyard works at a 1:2 purchase you're able to put enough tension on the luff.
The boat also has removable backstays to compensate for the additional pull on the mast.
 
aluijten said:
Yeah, the analogy is there yes. The difference is that there is no real cutterstay anymore. The end of the halyard sits directly next to the point where it enters/exits the mast and and it's looped through a turning block that attaches to the top halyard swivel. The anti-torsion line makes sure the sail furls evenly. Obviously you cannot partly furl it but that is no problem as it's only 16 square meter or so. It's the combination with the Yankee that makes it great.
Because the halyard works at a 1:2 purchase you're able to put enough tension on the luff.
Click to expand...

That's exactly how the jib on a traditional cutter works. No stay to the end of the bowsprit, just a wire-luffed jib set flying. Often with a wykeham-martin furling gear, but not always - some boats simply bring the tack in to the stemhead on a traveller round the bowsprit, then manhandle the sail down in the lee of the staysail which doesn't sound much fun in a breeze! The halyard is almost always in two parts with a block as you describe; ours had the end fixed up the mast, like yours, but bigger boats would bring both ends down to the deck and have another tackle - the purchase - on one of them. So you haul the sail up most of the way with the plain end, then haul on the purchase to increase the tension. By having the two blocks on opposite sides of the mast, you reduce the tendency of the halyard to twist, which was always a problem with our setup where the fixed end was on a becket on the masthead block.

The old definition of a cutter was not about having two headsails - all boats of significant size set multiple headsails - but about where the main forestay was attached. A cutter had her forestay running to the stemhead, and the bowsprit was moveable, hence the lack of a stay to hank the jib onto. The staysail would of course be hanked to the forestay, hence the name. A sloop had a shorter, stronger bowsprit that was not run in, and the forestay went to the bowsprit. The jib could then be hanked to it. So by the old definition, most of these modern "cutters" where the forward-most headsail is the more permanent one are actually sloops :)

Pete
 
Having the inner stay well forward is often called a slutter rig, although boatbuilders often don;t like that... A true cutter rig is designed to sail with both headsails pulling at the same time whereas a slutter is really a way of giving you a choice of headsail. Southerly did this on a few of their boats - you get a good-sized self-tacking inner jib which is great for short-handed and also can be carried in stronger winds without having to furl it it and lose the shape to some extent. On passage in light airs when you tend to be on one tack for a while, you can furl the jib and set the outer genoa and get the extra sail area - you will have to furl it to tack though. Because you have the jib as well you can make the genoa out of a lighter fabric as well I would imagine.
 
Sans Serif is cutter rigged and it would take a lot to make us change back to straight sloop. The convenience of furling the staysail but keeping an unfurled Yankee far outweighs the loss of power downwind in our view. Can always set the cruising chute if we're feeling energetic.
 
We moved to a cutter rig from a sloop. The main advantage is having the fore sail plan split in two so neither sail is as large as a single 130% genoa. Reefed, the sails set better on the furlers as they are a smaller size (Yankee and staysail are both on furlex furlers for us). Upwind, you get the benefits of the slot effect, winds past the beam, you roll away the staysail. In heavier weather, you can furl up the Yankee and use the staysail and main. Tacking isn't an issue, tack the Yankee, trim then tack the smaller staysail. Bit more work than a single headsail but not really a problem. Not sure there is a good reason not to have a cutter but not necessarily better than a sloop.
 
Out of curiosity, where did all this "Yankee" business come from? I'd never heard of it until three or four years ago; a cutter's headsails were always staysail and jib.

Pete
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top