SafeTrx from the RYA

[RobbieW]

In the current RYA article, www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Page...shed-on-james-2-and-vertrouwen-collision.aspx, on the MAIB report into a sinking in Sussex Bay last year there is a recommendation for the SafeTRX app. I dont remember reading about this before so did a quick search on here which threw up some discussions from 2015 that suggested the app was perhaps buggy in its early versions. Quick check in the Google store shows its now on version 3.2.2, updated in Feb 2018.

So, updates from anyone ? Does it now have traction ? Do you use it ? Is it reliable ? Thoughts ?

 

[maby]

I have it in my phone - seems to work well enough, but I generally forget to set it when we set out.

 

[[70521]]

I am somewhat amazed by the RYA's conclusions! The MAIB Concluded that

Lessons Learned
The MAIB has concluded that:

• an effective lookout was not being kept on either vessel none of the sea anglers on James 2 were wearing lifejackets
• James 2 was not showing the correct navigation lights for a vessel of its size
• the watchkeeper on Vertrouwen was distracted by social media on his phone and vessel administration on a laptop in the wheelhouse

How the RYA app corrects any of the above is beyond me.

I don't use it. I have a "home contact" who gets a text (and responds acknowledging receipt) when the boat arrives at the destination, usually wear a lifejacket, display the correct lights during hours of darkness and tend to leave the phone charging on the nav table.

 

[maby]

I am somewhat amazed by the RYA's conclusions! The MAIB Concluded that

How the RYA app corrects any of the above is beyond me.

I don't use it. I have a "home contact" who gets a text (and responds acknowledging receipt) when the boat arrives at the destination, usually wear a lifejacket, display the correct lights during hours of darkness and tend to leave the phone charging on the nav table.

It certainly does not address any of those issues. It's purpose is to file a passage plan electronically and ping position reports whenever it is in range of mobile communications. This will help any search and rescue efforts if you go late. It is not a magic wand, but it is free and minimal effort, so probably worth having loaded and configured. Like any other safety measure at sea, it is not the single solution but one component of a system that can minimise risk and maximise the probability of rescue.

 

[dom]

Never heard of it, looked at RYA link and seems like it’s free to all and sundry. Really good idea, very public spirited, and a nod to the boaters who feel left behind by the RYA.

Clearly not going to sort out the issues raised in this sad loss, but no harm in plugging this nifty little app now they’ve built it. For example, we’ve all heard about it and some will no doubt gratefully use it.

Tks for pointing out.

 

[[70521]]

This will help any search and rescue efforts if you go late.

I am fortunate that I have an AIS transceiver onboard which will do the same, but it is great that the RYA are providing the service for non-AIS users.

 

[RobbieW]

I am fortunate that I have an AIS transceiver onboard which will do the same, but it is great that the RYA are providing the service for non-AIS users.

In the situation described in the MAIB report, I doubt your AIS would help because the vessel was swamped - then again, neither would the app for the same reason. So far as I can see the app is self contained, so in the event of the loss of the vessel or person owning the smartphone (with phone in pocket) over the side nothing is going to trigger an event for SAR services to follow up.

More complex to implement but a solution where the app reports in to a server which stores details and updates then deletes them on succesful completion but raises alerts when completion is overdue would seem more resilient.

 

[[70521]]

In the situation described in the MAIB report, I doubt your AIS would help because the vessel was swamped - then again, neither would the app for the same reason. So far as I can see the app is self contained, so in the event of the loss of the vessel or person owning the smartphone (with phone in pocket) over the side nothing is going to trigger an event for SAR services to follow up.

More complex to implement but a solution where the app reports in to a server which stores details and updates then deletes them on succesful completion but raises alerts when completion is overdue would seem more resilient.

Interesting points. The sudden disappearance of a signal AIS or RYA App should indicate the last known location (I don't know the frequency that the RYA App pings the server) and is always a good starting point.

I have drowned two mobile phones, in very small amounts of salt water, and now have a phone rated at IP68. Therefore the RYA App user needs a waterproof(ed) phone if they end up in the oggin.

There is also the other limitation, the ability to pick up a mobile signal. OK for amount 2.5 NM from a mast for voice, we have been able to get a WhatsApp message about 5NM off Portland, but that was a data burst and the signal always goes further in that mode - the RYA App should be about the same. Is there any test data on distance from a mast the signal has been received?

EDIT: I've had a look at the Google App site and downloaded the app - I'll take a look and do some testing over the summer. Looking at the reviews on the site they are not very supportive.

 

[ShinyShoe]

In the situation described in the MAIB report, I doubt your AIS would help because the vessel was swamped - then again, neither would the app for the same reason. So far as I can see the app is self contained, so in the event of the loss of the vessel or person owning the smartphone (with phone in pocket) over the side nothing is going to trigger an event for SAR services to follow up.

Last known position. CG have access to Marine Traffic etc, so they can check last know position from AIS, or even an Phone in AIS Beacon mode.
Turns the needle in a haystack search into a needle in a sack!

SafeTrx data is normally only available to the CG once you are overdue. If you create a passage plan for 24hrs and your shore contact becomes concerned at 6 hours - not sure the CG can access the data... ...although shore contact can.

More complex to implement but a solution where the app reports in to a server which stores details and updates then deletes them on successful completion but raises alerts when completion is overdue would seem more resilient.

Thats what it does - BUT it notifies shore contact NOT the CG.

Really needs some data -

* How often does someone go overdue
* What was the outcome

We see data for the other emergency devices showing number of "lives saved" - RYA needs to share that / get some case studies on...

Our work has a lone worker system. Before you go to a 'dangerous' place you notify a system how long you will be. If you take longer it calls you, if you don't respond to confirm safe it calls your boss, if your boss doesn't respond it calls their boss. They send people to check on you after exhausting checking other phone contacts etc. Not heard of anyone having been found to be in danger. Heard of plenty who forgot to log back in and switched phone off at end of shift / phone battery died.

 

[RobbieW]

...Thats what it does - BUT it notifies shore contact NOT the CG....

Thanks, its not obvious from the description that the app is logging data with a server, it reads much more standalone. Not that different to an EPIRB alert in that the MRCC would frst call the shore contact, main difference is that its the MRCC coordinating rather than the shore contact.

Edit: I was reading http://www.safetrxapp.com/how-it-works, reading further into that site and on the RYA page does make it clearer. So, SafeTrx is a generic app that is 'sponsored' by a number of safety agencies around the world which seems to be customised for each sponsoring agency, hence the RYA login requirement.

 

[[70521]]

I downloaded the app after my last post. Gosh it is clunky! It brings a lot of information into one app that I gather from several sources and cleary designed for coastal use. I am not sure I would use it as it does everything I already do and means an extra process to remember, but will give it a go during our wee "la Manche 400" next month.

 

[ShinyShoe]

I downloaded the app after my last post. Gosh it is clunky! It brings a lot of information into one app that I gather from several sources and cleary designed for coastal use. I am not sure I would use it as it does everything I already do and means an extra process to remember.

I guess there are two process issues... ...some people would forget to sign off with a shore contact - this will show you 'arriving'... ...some shore contacts will forget to call CG if you haven't checked in. This might encourage them to call up? But I'd rather use a more reliable shore contact in the first place!

Thanks, its not obvious from the description that the app is logging data with a server, it reads much more standalone. Not that different to an EPIRB alert in that the MRCC would frst call the shore contact, main difference is that its the MRCC coordinating rather than the shore contact.

I *bet* if you did a trial of time from being overdue to calling CG the time to call is substantial. Probably something like this:

10-15minutes of doing nothing
Send text. Wait 5 minutes for a reply
Send another text ! Then decide to call... straight to voicemail.
Try a few more times (because thats what we do!!)
Perhaps call someone else they might have made contact with.
Probably wait for a bit longer - getting angry they haven't called...
I've seen MAIB reports where people go to the marina / harbour to check for the boat arriving
Then finally call CG...

The advantage might be - check the tracker - see they stopped transmitting 4 hours ago, maybe you call now... ...or maybe you still assume they dropped the phone in the water!

 

[[70521]]

I downloaded the app after my last post. Gosh it is clunky! It brings a lot of information into one app that I gather from several sources and cleary designed for coastal use. I am not sure I would use it as it does everything I already do and means an extra process to remember, but will give it a go during our wee "la Manche 400" next month.

I guess there are two process issues... ...some people would forget to sign off with a shore contact - this will show you 'arriving'... ...some shore contacts will forget to call CG if you haven't checked in. This might encourage them to call up? But I'd rather use a more reliable shore contact in the first place!

I've been climbing and sailing for about 45 years, five of those as a Mountain Rescue Team member, so the call home is deeply ingrained. Saying that as I transmit on AIS the usual comment is "we know" as they can see my progress on Marine Traffic.

For those not transmitting on AIS it is a good tool.

 

[franksingleton]

I am fortunate that I have an AIS transceiver onboard which will do the same, but it is great that the RYA are providing the service for non-AIS users.

But, you could argue that the RYA should be promoting AIS instead of developing an alternative.

 

[[70521]]

But, you could argue that the RYA should be promoting AIS instead of developing an alternative.

Good point, but if 80% of UK sailors are Solent based and only sail there why should they; the RYA App covers their needs.

The other 20% of which say 19% sail within 10 NM of the coast, for a small percentage of the time, are also covered by the app. Numerically, there are few members who sail offshore and fall outside of the app design parameters.

 

[franksingleton]

Good point, but if 80% of UK sailors are Solent based and only sail there why should they; the RYA App covers their needs.

The other 20% of which say 19% sail within 10 NM of the coast, for a small percentage of the time, are also covered by the app. Numerically, there are few members who sail offshore and fall outside of the app design parameters.

-

Fair points, Sandy. I can see that it has a part to play in limited, if popular, areas. I think that th RYA should not promote its use as a general safety tool. They are in danger of over-promoting it vis a vis the officially recognised technology.

 

[ShinyShoe]

I downloaded the app after my last post. Gosh it is clunky! It brings a lot of information into one app that I gather from several sources and cleary designed for coastal use. I am not sure I would use it as it does everything I already do and means an extra process to remember, but will give it a go during our wee "la Manche 400" next month.

-

Fair points, Sandy. I can see that it has a part to play in limited, if popular, areas. I think that th RYA should not promote its use as a general safety tool. They are in danger of over-promoting it vis a vis the officially recognised technology.

But the difference with this and AIS is that it prompts someone to do something. AIS is passive. Yes - @Sandy's experience is that people watch him anchoring up or entering harbour so when he calls they say "We know". I'm not convinced everyone's shore contact is that good. If they are AIS will do the same job. If they aren't then the system contacting them is the special feature.

Its also free vs £300+ for Class B AIS. If I had VHF Radio on board but had £300* to spend on safety equipment I'd spend £200 on EPIRB/PLB and maybe the other £100 on AIS Receive, than on Class B AIS.

But if I had £3000 to spend I'd have Class B, Radar, EPIRB, etc. Yet this still offers something the others don't a nag function to get my shore contact to do something if I haven't called in safe. While I'd rather change to a more reliable shore contact I can see the logic... and its FoC


*I fully expect a "What price a life" to be in the reply... ...but reality is for some people this is still more than they can afford...

 

[Porthandbuoy]

I downloaded Safetrx when it first appeared in the App Store. One drawback is it drains your phone battery alarmingly fast. Reason? 1) When sailing your phone will, in all probability, be using a lot of power just to maintain contact with the nearest phone mast. 2) It requires Location Services and therefore gps to be ‘on’. Turning location services ‘off’ is recommended as the best way to prolong battery life.
This app really requires the phone to be on charge at all times.

 

[laika]

Its also free vs £300+ for Class B AIS.

My only objection to SafeTRX is the same as what it was when the RYA launched it: it isn't "free" yet we're obliged to implicitly purchase it with our RYA membership.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong but this isn't developed by people in their spare time for the common good: a company is flogging the app and use of the servers to the RYA on an ongoing basis for a profit.

I'm an RYA member. I am not a technophobe but I don't need/want this app. My shore contacts are selected for reliability, common sense and where possible familiarity with the boat although the latter doesn't matter: I email the instructions including what number to call, when, and what to say (passage plan, cg66 etc.). What extra does the app give? Tracking by smartphone for those without AIS but I suspect there are any number of other ways to achieve that.

"What price a life" is probably the RYA's reasoning for buying this (.my initial thought of "oo..an app! shiny!" is doubtless unfair) but I would prefer the membership fee to be lower so I could choose how to allocate my own safety budget.

EDIT (to respond to later comments): What I actually mean is that I would prefer the RYA allocated this money to yield better value for money in other areas regardless of whether they benefit me or not. A 50p reduction in membership fees is nothing but a few 10s of 000s well-targeted might bring much greater benefits.

In the 3(?) years it's been going is there any record of someone's life being saved that wouldn't have been had they simply used the manual process correctly?

 

[RobbieW]

My only objection to SafeTRX is the same as what it was when the RYA launched it: it isn't "free" yet we're obliged to implicitly purchase it with our RYA membership.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong but this isn't developed by people in their spare time for the common good: a company is flogging the app and use of the servers to the RYA on an ongoing basis for a profit....

Only one quibble with that, I dont believe you have to be a member of the RYA to register on thier website. Thus one should be able to use the app without membership but you do have to create that login