Sadler 32 and Watermota Sea Panther

[eddystone]

Just curious. As someone who is now pretty comfortable with choosing a Beta 30 to replace the VP2002 in a Sadler 32 (not much more £££ than a B25, significantly better torque for similar fuel consumption, same weight as VP2002 etc.), why is it that the 29HP Sea Panther, the original engine in the S32, was considered too big? Was it just physically too big/heavy (1600 cc 4 cyl Kent) rather than too powerful? The VP2002 was less than ideal too but I think that was fitted because the Bukh 20 became too expensive.

 

[Tranona]

At the time it was used there was no sensible alternative. The bigger Volvos of the time were huge and agricultural and the typical 4 cylinder engines such as BMC, Perkins etc were not only too big and heavy as well as usually starting at 35hp.

Ideally the boat only needs 25hp to achieve hull speed, but there was nothing available in that size. The Watermota was an attempt to fill the gap, but it really did not work. not only was it big and heavy but had poor starting and rough running. So, on balance, even though the 2002 is a bit underpowered it was a better compromise.

Of course things have changed now, not only expectations, but the choice of engines to meet those expectations (or is it the other way round?). So, while the 25 would be much better than the 2002, owners tend to spend the small extra and fit the 30 - as you are planning. Purists say its OTT, but there really is no penalty as you can prop it to still load the engine and you will cruise at 2-300 rpm lower than with a 25.

 

[eddystone]

At the time it was used there was no sensible alternative. The bigger Volvos of the time were huge and agricultural and the typical 4 cylinder engines such as BMC, Perkins etc were not only too big and heavy as well as usually starting at 35hp.

Ideally the boat only needs 25hp to achieve hull speed, but there was nothing available in that size. The Watermota was an attempt to fill the gap, but it really did not work. not only was it big and heavy but had poor starting and rough running. So, on balance, even though the 2002 is a bit underpowered it was a better compromise.

Of course things have changed now, not only expectations, but the choice of engines to meet those expectations (or is it the other way round?). So, while the 25 would be much better than the 2002, owners tend to spend the small extra and fit the 30 - as you are planning. Purists say its OTT, but there really is no penalty as you can prop it to still load the engine and you will cruise at 2-300 rpm lower than with a 25.

Interesting what you say about the Sea Panther. I would have thought a 4 cylinder would run more smoothly but the Kent block was designed as a petrol and I don't think it was changed for diesel with its much higher stresses, quite apart from the marinisation bit.

Some people think you can take "over-engineing" too far but I had a trial on a Sadler 32 some years ago which was custom built with a marinised VW Passat diesel engine - 1600 cc and 55HP! (the owner was a director of the relevant company); It was a tight fit for service access but actually ran quite well although didn't seem to want to reach hull speed.

 

[<152587>]

but the Kent block was designed as a petrol and I don't think it was changed for diesel with its much higher stresses, quite apart from the marinisation bit.

Absolutely no problem especially with the post 1970 711m block. Don't forget that these motors formed the backbone of motor sport, both Lotus and Cosworth amongst others stretching the boundaries of performance of these units. I believe I read somewhere that Ford was still supporting this unit for , I think one of the formulas, until this day. Very strong, tough and capable motor.

 

[Tranona]

Absolutely no problem especially with the post 1970 711m block. Don't forget that these motors formed the backbone of motor sport, both Lotus and Cosworth amongst others stretching the boundaries of performance of these units. I believe I read somewhere that Ford was still supporting this unit for , I think one of the formulas, until this day. Very strong, tough and capable motor.

That is indeed the case with petrol engines, but I suggest you try a Sea Panther before you comment on how these qualities were used in the conversion - if you can get it started that is!

 

[<152587>]

That is indeed the case with petrol engines, but I suggest you try a Sea Panther before you comment on how these qualities were used in the conversion - if you can get it started that is!

Your problems seem different to mine, no problem, 30 secs on heat, on the key. fantastic engine, indestructible if maintained

 

[<152587>]

Been doing one in a lizzibethan for many years, owner would have nothing else, well satisfied.

 

[Solent sailer]

We had a Sadler 32 for many years with the Sea panther engine, I loved the idea of "pre-heat" drip derv on to metal mesh in the air inlet and set fire to it! when we bought the boat the previous owner said to wait for the smoke from the air filter and then start the engine. it worked great and had very little trouble with it, eventually it started to pressurise the crank case and i didn't want to re-build such an old engine so had a Sole' 29HP fitted. I understand it is a marinised Mitsubishi engine, it looked like a 3 cylinder digger engine and they put up with all sorts!

 

[eddystone]

We had a Sadler 32 for many years with the Sea panther engine, I loved the idea of "pre-heat" drip derv on to metal mesh in the air inlet and set fire to it! when we bought the boat the previous owner said to wait for the smoke from the air filter and then start the engine. it worked great and had very little trouble with it, eventually it started to pressurise the crank case and i didn't want to re-build such an old engine so had a Sole' 29HP fitted. I understand it is a marinised Mitsubishi engine, it looked like a 3 cylinder digger engine and they put up with all sorts!

Brilliant - that starting technique sounds more 50s than 70s - from the same school as Susan Hiscock describing how to start a primus stove.

 

[billynomate]

Hi all, I'm looking to find out about my sea panther i think its the 400 series. My engine won't run, it turns over okay.
I presume its something to do with the fuel pump where the fuel is not going through into the engine. Any advice will be much apricated. And if anyone can tell me where's the best place to buy spare parts.

 

[mikegunn]

Hi all, I'm looking to find out about my sea panther i think its the 400 series. My engine won't run, it turns over okay.
I presume its something to do with the fuel pump where the fuel is not going through into the engine. Any advice will be much apricated. And if anyone can tell me where's the best place to buy spare parts.

I've got a service manual for a Watermota Panther. It seems to apply to Series, 100, 200, 300, 400 & 600 and contains sufficient information for a substantial overhaul. Parts diagrams and wiring diagrams included in the manual. I bought it by mistake from Stephensen Marine, Dartmouth a couple of years ago. Turned out that my engine wasn't a Panther, even though it had a plate affixed claiming that it was. If you or anybody else would like it I'll happily send to a good home for the price of postage (probably around a fiver). PM me if interested.

Mike

 

[Slowboat35]

I re-engined my Sadler 32 from a Yanmar 3GM30F to a 3YM

The 3GM was powerful enough easily reaching hull speed, the YM considerably (almost ridiculously) overpowered though the prop combination may have had an influence on that.
A S23 doesn't need and can't use 30Hp imho.