Sadler 32-a good buy?

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Markysailingspark

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I am looking at a Sadler 32- lifting keel 1979. I have admired the boat and its race history for a while in the club and have been offered it at a great price.

I'm an able sailor but a less able second hand buyer so any hints or tips would be great!

She still has original mw sea panther in but seems to be a decent runner-if a little smokey!
 
I did briefly consider a Sadler 32 last time I was boat shopping. Very well regarded type. Snooks has one and I'm sure there are a few other owners on the forum too.

Out of interest, do you know anything about the lifting keel and related mechanisms? My own boat is a swing keel.

General boat buying tips: get an impartial, experienced, boaty friend to look over it with you before you decide to get a survey done. Surveys can be quite pricey and you should read the small print, generally they won't cover engine, electrics, or anything that cannot be seen without simple inspection (i.e. no disassembly).

What age are the sails, standing rigging, instruments etc? Is the inventory decent- dinghy, outboard, cradle etc? Also, if it's a retirement or ill-health sale and the boat hasn't been well used in a while, don't assume that anything still works until you have tested it for yourself.
 
All good stuff from Kelpie there. We have a fixed deep keel of slightly younger vintage and have been happily upgrading since, although in truth we didn't need to. Could have sailed happily without any immediate upgrades although time and an ageing boat mean that 'stuff' is inevitable.
 
The Sadler 32 is essentially a development of the Contessa 32, and as such is a seaworthy boat, which sails well, but small inside, particularly by modern standards. I know nothing about lifting keels, but unless you particularly need this feature, it is added complication.

There are lots of older boats for sale now, and the general advice is to buy the most sorted boat you can, rather than a project, unless working on boats is what you're really interested in. At that age, and having recent put a new engine, sails standing rigging, instruments, etc etc on ours, I would say that is sensible advice. Therefore if you're decided on a Sadler 32, going and having a look at some others would be a sensible thing to do.

If you particularly like Sadlers, also consider the 29. The advantages are a) double skin foam filled construction so unsinkable and warmer with far less condensation inside, b) more or less the same amount of space inside as the 32, but 3 ft shorter so cheaper parking, c) there are lots of twin keel ones about if shallow draft (and able to dry out) are important. The obvious disadvantage is that the 29 is a little slower than the 32, however they still sail well..... I shoul point out that I'm obviously biased on this........
 
It's a decent well respected boat but whether it's a good buy without knowing the asking price is a difficult one. What seems like a good buy may not be quite so in todays market if you factor in costs of new sails and an engine. Possibly £10k for starters. It's I'm not saying you couldn't go sailing with it as it is but it's a consideration. There are plenty for sale with a wide range of prices. the one you are considering is one of the oldest and has the original engine so you should be looking to compare with the cheapest around. A lot of sellers are being unrealistic with asking prices, that's not new but as more and more new boats get sold and old ones don't get scrapped there a lot of boats around now of that era. I would also consider whether you need a boat with a lifting keel. If you don't then don't consider it.
 
I'm sorry I'm playing devils advocate here as alarm bells stated to go off when you mentioned the original engine.

I've had a look at the ad and the boat presents ok but..

It's nearly 40 years old. There are almost bound to be things that will soak up some money.

No mention of the age of the sails, are they OK for what you want?

Similarly standing rigging, again no mention of an update.

Should that engine go pop and it will someday, can you afford to drop a new one in? If not what would you do then?

If you can afford a new engine and you added it to the cost of the boat you could buy a more modern boat half its age. This would inevitably have more space, more creature comforts etc.

Just a few thoughts.

BTW Welcome to the forum.

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Market is awash with old, cheap boats. This one is the oldest of its class with the least popular keel option - seem to remember only 6 or 7 actually built - and with the worst possible engine. So, very limited appeal to add to all the potential problems with a 40 year old well used boat.

Be prepared for significant expenditure out of all proportion to the buying price to be able to use the boat long term. Condition is everything when buying boats of this age and type.
 
Just be careful to be aware of current prices, as there are a lot of bargains around. It has been known for people to say: "for you son I will do a special deal" and then skin you alive. Having said that, if you are attracted to the lift keel, you would go a long way to find another one. They are nice, the lifting stuff does not intrude into the cabin and you have the option of whisking yourself along the French canals and other slim water adventures. There is a maintenance overhead though and you should do your homework.

You are happy with the design or you would not be considering it and that is a big plus, as is the fact that you know the particular boat. Looking on the bleak side most everything you commonly need to do on an old boat can be done for little money - provided you can do the work yourself. A well looked after 40 year old boat can be no more of a problem than a well looked after 15 year old - in fact they may have new engine, rigging, sails or instruments - the 15 year old almost certainly not. However, old masts do have a habit of being messed around with over the years so look carefully at any additions for signs of corrosion and accident damage, they are an expensive item. Hull blisters should be taken seriously for they are troublesome to fix and always cast a long shadow on resale value.

It sounds as if the engine will need attention at some stage, once you have a 40year old motor out of the boat my inclination is to put a new one back. A new engine will be £3,500ish to buy and not a lot more to self fit, unless you are uncommonly unlucky, say 4 to 5k all in. If that sounds dreadful to you then look further. I bought a boat with an iffy motor, all the wiseacres said it was rubbish even brand new, it lasted 10 years never cost a penny and I sold it as a running engine. So I would cast the dice on that one.

Those slatted cockpit seats are a trial for sensitive bums, they wear unevenly the plugs fall out and they can look a mess, if I was keeping the boat I would perhaps fit some of that natty teak decking.
 
doug748 said:
It sounds as if the engine will need attention at some stage, once you have a 40year old motor out of the boat my inclination is to put a new one back. A new engine will be £3,500ish to buy and not a lot more to self fit, unless you are uncommonly unlucky, say 4 to 5k all in.
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Not sure where you get that sort of cost from. You may remember Snooks sharing the details of replacing the Bukh in his Sadler 32 with a Beta. It cost close to £10k - although he did have some upgrades and professional fitting. Even DIY you will be lucky to get away with less than £7k with a new engine. Lot of money on a boat with an asking price of £15k!

However, the boat is the cheapest of its type on the market, and as you say for the right person the lift keel may be a big selling point - I thought the shallow draft keel on my old boat was a big selling point for the same reason. Potential buyers seemed not to agree!
 
I had a 29 fin and two friends with 32s, one deep fin and the other lifting. We all cruised at about the same speed but the 32s would leave us behind in a race. There was little between the two 32s but the lifting one was marginally slower usually, as the YM tests at the time suggested, but both much faster than the bilge keel and shallow fin options, as was my 29.
 
Tranona said:
Not sure where you get that sort of cost from. You may remember Snooks sharing the details of replacing the Bukh in his Sadler 32 with a Beta. It cost close to £10k - although he did have some upgrades and professional fitting. Even DIY you will be lucky to get away with less than £7k with a new engine. Lot of money on a boat with an asking price of £15k!
!
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You buy a new engine for c£3,600 delivered with gearbox, full electrics and engine coupling. You fit it. £50 for bits = £3,650

Or you can also have new:

Prop Shaft £100
Stuffing box £100
Prop £200
Fuel filter £100
Water filter £100
Fuel tank £150
Waterlock £100
Exhaust £100

Plus have the engines lifted in and out to save you the trouble plus 4 nights bed and breakfast and you still have not managed to spend £5000.
 
Thanks for the advice so far-had few hours in the boat looking all over today-lots of little jobs, some essential and some preferential-rightfully so the engine would be my greatest concern. Amble is a fairly exposed harbour entrance which is narrow and can pick up a nasty swell over the sandbank-plenty of reliable power is needed!! Is an engine replacement a big job??
 
doug748 said:
You buy a new engine for c£3,600 delivered with gearbox, full electrics and engine coupling. You fit it. £50 for bits = £3,650

Or you can also have new:

Prop Shaft £100
Stuffing box £100
Prop £200
Fuel filter £100
Water filter £100
Fuel tank £150
Waterlock £100
Exhaust £100

Plus have the engines lifted in and out to save you the trouble plus 4 nights bed and breakfast and you still have not managed to spend £5000.
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Yes - if you are happy with a 14hp engine. However it is normal to fit a 25 or 28 to a Sadler 32 and as pvb says the engine alone will be over £5k so my £7k is realistic. Think you are a bit out of touch with real prices. Lot of work replacing that huge 4 cylinder Ford engine with a Beta.
 
Tranona said:
Yes - if you are happy with a 14hp engine. However it is normal to fit a 25 or 28 to a Sadler 32 and as pvb says the engine alone will be over £5k so my £7k is realistic. Think you are a bit out of touch with real prices. Lot of work replacing that huge 4 cylinder Ford engine with a Beta.
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I have done it, you opine.

The prices I give will buy a 20hp Beta and fit it, a few hundred quid extra would buy the 25.
 
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doug748 said:
I have done it, you opine.

The prices I give will buy a 20hp Beta and fit it, a few hundred quid extra would buy the 25.
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The current list price of a Beta 20 with push-button panel and 75A alternator is £5906.

Who do you know who'll sell one at 40% discount?
 
To add to the caveats opined by the OP's:
The Sea Panther Watermota (spellcheck) is according to our local engine man,a derivative of the petrol Ford Cortina engine, with a three bearing crankshaft.It has in this person's opinion, always been underwhelming as regards longevity, being so lightly constructed for a diesel engine.It's like buying a boat with a Volvo 7A diesel, a recipe for either eye watering bills, or a replacement engine asap.
The Sadler 32 is however, if well maintained, a bullet proof boat,and holds on to her canvas longer than most.Check the Main Bulkhead for rot top and bottom.
 
Tranona said:
However, the boat is the cheapest of its type on the market, and as you say for the right person the lift keel may be a big selling point - I thought the shallow draft keel on my old boat was a big selling point for the same reason. Potential buyers seemed not to agree!
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My old Westerly came in both fin and lifting (swing) keel versions. It was always noticeable that the asking price for the fin keelers was 30% more on the west coast while the asking price for the lifters was 30% more in muddy areas.
 
Spyro said:
I haven't seen the add but if it is 15k it's not a great buy.
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I think we are assuming it is this one:

http://m.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=301199

The News Now listing shows a fair number for sale with a rough average asking price of 20k. There is a "new" one for 60 thousand, the cheapest is asking about £14,000; which one is a good buy I have no idea but the OPs target looks ok if he can get a modest offer accepted.

BTW, Markysailing, I forgot to say in my opening epistle that in my view the one thing that is very difficult to improve is an interior that has been badly neglected, wet or oil stained. It does look ok, but photos can only tell so much.
 
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