S24 anchor winch retro fitting .....possible winter project

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

Hi All...... dont post here much now but thats another story........ANYWAYYYYYYYY.....TM has never had an anchor winch fitted, but old age (mine) and declining health its now becoming a strong "requirement".... have been sniffin about (inc at Sibs on Sunday) at various sorts and the best for my needs/wants is via vetus is RC6 ...Im not a lover of drilling holes anywhere on TM but needs must etc...SOOOO question time .. anybody done it ??...pitfalls?? ...the wiring harness is already in situe under the starboard seating but where should it be routed through to the anchor locker ??....ALL COMMENTS GOOD OR BAD GRATEFULLY RECIEVED ......TA PLENTY MUCH......

 

[DavidJ]

You can buy a recon Simpson Lawrence as originally fitted from slspares. Suggest having the non capsten version since much neater and never used the capsten in 40 years of boating.

 

[DavidJ]

Ps
You will need a calibrated chain. I’m not sure how you can tell if you have one already. Others will know.

 

[Brent Swain]

Anchor winch $75 for materials

 

[jfm]

$75

It's awful mate, really.

 

[oldgit]

Good idea to make sure the deck around the windlass has been "doubled up" , might have been done from new, perhaps extra wood ply glassed in under the deck.
Considerable stresses when pulling up anchor and chain , unsightly cracks surrounding windlass on some pretty substantial boats are not unknown.
Worth being able to control windlass from both cockpit and foredeck but extra work/expence, just having a electric windlass is great.

 

[Brent Swain]

It's awful mate, really.

Yes in the world of "decorative given priority over function" it would be, but some prefer practicality over decorativeness.

 

[jfm]

Yes in the world of "decorative given priority over function" it would be, but some prefer practicality over decorativeness.

No, looks shouldn't have priority over function but things like this can have both. Anyway, that thing appears as bad in the functional department as it does in the beauty department.

 

[vas]

you may be in the "form follows function" camp, but imho these two go hand in hand, so I'll agree with jfm.

you recon it's functionally ok to occupy all the bow area with this thing?
is it safe to run this massive drum with the teeth on the side and the big lever grabbing clothing, suffocating ppl on fast drop of chain/rope, etc, etc...
I find it simply godawful AND downright dangerous

V.

 

[Brent Swain]

you may be in the "form follows function" camp, but imho these two go hand in hand, so I'll agree with jfm.

you recon it's functionally ok to occupy all the bow area with this thing?
is it safe to run this massive drum with the teeth on the side and the big lever grabbing clothing, suffocating ppl on fast drop of chain/rope, etc, etc...
I find it simply godawful AND downright dangerous

V.

Dangerous? Something which has given none of the problems you list ,in fact zero problems since 1979, including several circumnavigations? People here, with decades of cruising experience ,including circumnavigators ,who did it all with typical yottie winches , once having switched to this type of winch have never gone back to typical yottie winches.
Drum winches are almost universal on commercial fish boats around here. A yottie winch on one would get you laughed off the dock.
All stainless, zero mixing of metals, can be built in a cockpit while at anchor ( which I have done, several times) all open, no hidden parts, no dead crabs below decks rotting in a chain locker, no hawse pipe to leak, no fouling or jamming your rode on the way out, no mismatched chain and gypsy, no bigger than a couple cases of beer on the foredeck, keeps you rode as tidy and compact as it can possibly be, wash the mud off after getting underway .

One steel boat in Tahiti had been using the hull plate as the bottom of a chain locker. Rusted right thru. No need for a chain locker with a drum winch.

A friend lost a finger to his capstan type hydraulic winch. While I have all the parts to hydraulic power for mine , it is much harder to injure yourself with a hand winch than with electric or hydraulic ones . That's why I have never gone that route.
If I won $millions in the lottery, I would not change anchor winches. Most people around here who have them, feel the same way.

For those who have no anchor winch of any kind ,I have suggested running your rode along your side deck to the cockpit, so you can use your sheet winch, and put the rode in a milk crate in your cockpit, as a temporary measure , until you build an anchor winch.
I have done this to get out of narrow anchorages, where going to the fordeck single handed puts you at risk of hitting the rocks on either side, when the anchor breaks free, before you can get back to the cockpit. Once clear and in open water, with the windvane doing the steering, I go forward and wind it on the drum.
This puts you in control of the tiller, engine and anchor rode, simultaneously.

 

[[2068]]

Safety isn’t always about actual disasters, it’s also about the possibility of an accident.

 

[Brent Swain]

Decades of use without a single accident are a very accurate indicator of the risk, far more so than armchair speculation.
I broke my finger once, raising my anchor, leaving Moorea for the Cook Islands, due to lack of such an anchor winch on my first boat.

 

[ICTM]

Unfortunately Brent has found his way on to this part of the forum. He is a clown. He will not be swayed from his own ill conceived ideas and beliefs. An occasional visit to scuttlebut will demonstrate that unless it is steel, badly welded and designed on the back of a beermat, then as far as Brent is concerned, it will not float...... he has, rightly IMHO, been banned from a number of forums. His idea of an anchor winch for a motor boat sum up all you need to know about him.

Brent you constantly berate others for offering an opinion where, you believe, they have no experience or expertise. This is a classic example of you doing just that. Please go back to your floating beer keg in far flung exotic locations where you have constant internet access............on no you can’t have both can you ? All IMHO of course.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Brent Swain]

Good idea to make sure the deck around the windlass has been "doubled up" , might have been done from new, perhaps extra wood ply glassed in under the deck.
Considerable stresses when pulling up anchor and chain , unsightly cracks surrounding windlass on some pretty substantial boats are not unknown.
Worth being able to control windlass from both cockpit and foredeck but extra work/expence, just having a electric windlass is great.

A friend with a 40 footer reinforced the area around his winch well. In a hurricane in Tonga, 4 x4 ft of foredeck was ripped out.
Anchor winches, mooring bits, chocks, and cleats should all be stronger than the biggest line which will ever be used on them ( rare to nonexistent on most stock boats).
Check yours for backup plates inside. Some use only washers, grossly inadequate, and usually easily rectified.
I design my mooring bits for 90 tons tensile strength. If a tug offers to pull you off a reef, he is not going to hand to you a piece of half inch yotty braid.

 

[MapisM]

Dangerous? Something which has given none of the problems you list ,in fact zero problems since 1979, including several circumnavigations?

Yup, downright dangerous, I'm afraid.
If you used that ground tackle for decades with zero problems, well, good for you, 'cause you're obviously lucky.
But suggesting that a cobbled together gadget like that is akin to what is normally used in commercial fishing boats makes me think that you never saw how the real things look like.
So, I hope you'll appreciate the pic below as one example, and I don't think it's necessary to add any words to explain the differences with your setup.
Oh, and before you argue that the winches below are likely to cost more than $75 each, you can save the effort, 'cause that's the only point I'm not going to argue with! :encouragement:

 

[sarabande]

I think that is quite a neat and cheap device - for storing chain and warp. For use as an anchor 'winch', it's just unbelievably dangerous and ineffectively designed. BTW, it is a windlass, not a winch.

The effective diameter of the drum varies with the amount of chain and rope stored, so the effort needed when the drum is nearly full will be substantially more than when it is lightly filled. A normal anchor winch has a constant diameter round the chain gypsy (or wildcat).

The idea of winding in the rope under increasing tension is challenging. The compression of the drum as the rope is spooled in will increase at every turn - how have you allowed for those forces in the design ?

Winding chain on top of rope is a recipe for problems. Rope is squidgy and chain isn't, and the links will bite into and entangle themselves into the interstices of the wound-in rope. Have you really used that under heavy heavy loads ?

That lever :scutch' brake round the circumference is unusual. Not only does it look as if it is very hard to access and apply, but if you have a runaway it will end up sending sparks all over the user's hand. Are you aware of the difference between 'leading' and 'trailing' brake shoes ?

Why put the pawls so close to the axle ? That demands a very long lever, especially with a full drum. A pawl ring nearer the circumference would be much more effective and also strengthen the cheeks of the drum against the outward forces of the rope and chain.

It's a neat DIY device for warp storage. I'd hate to use it to heave a boat (GRP or steel ) off the putty.

 

[Brent Swain]

Yup, downright dangerous, I'm afraid.
If you used that ground tackle for decades with zero problems, well, good for you, 'cause you're obviously lucky.
But suggesting that a cobbled together gadget like that is akin to what is normally used in commercial fishing boats makes me think that you never saw how the real things look like.
So, I hope you'll appreciate the pic below as one example, and I don't think it's necessary to add any words to explain the differences with your setup.
Oh, and before you argue that the winches below are likely to cost more than $75 each, you can save the effort, 'cause that's the only point I'm not going to argue with! :encouragement:

"Dangerous" is being at Penrhyn in the Cook Islands, waiting for new chain, to be shipped from New Zealand, and finding it doesn't quite fit your gypsy right, skipping the weight of chain off the gypsy every few feet .
"Dangerous" is having your chain jam in a locker, when you need it quickly, to keep you off a dangerous lee shore.
"Dangerous" is having your hand go thru an electric or hydraulic gypsy on a dark night, while trying to claw off a dangerous lee shore.
My winch eliminates all these possibilities , far less "dangerous!"

My 20 inch by 11 inch drum, hand operated, is no comparison to those. No, 20 inches by 11 is not huge, as some claim here .Mine holds 550 feet of half inch nylon braid.
How big to make the drum?
Go to the hardware store, and look at a reel of rope, the amount and diameter you plan to use, Read on the side, how much line is on it, to get an idea of how big to make the drum.

 

[Brent Swain]

I think that is quite a neat and cheap device - for storing chain and warp. For use as an anchor 'winch', it's just unbelievably dangerous and ineffectively designed. BTW, it is a windlass, not a winch.

The effective diameter of the drum varies with the amount of chain and rope stored, so the effort needed when the drum is nearly full will be substantially more than when it is lightly filled. A normal anchor winch has a constant diameter round the chain gypsy (or wildcat).
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Haven't found that a problem, in over 40 years of use. The extra diameter gives me far more rode pulled in than most hand operated Gypsy winches, which pull only a few links of chain in ,per stroke of the handle. My 55 lb delta is no effort whatever, even by a small person.
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The idea of winding in the rope under increasing tension is challenging. The compression of the drum as the rope is spooled in will increase at every turn - how have you allowed for those forces in the design ?
___________________________________________________________________________

Sailing off the hook, means that only the last bit of rode, the depth of the water, is under load ; insignificant.
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Winding chain on top of rope is a recipe for problems. Rope is squidgy and chain isn't, and the links will bite into and entangle themselves into the interstices of the wound-in rope. Have you really used that under heavy heavy loads ?
_______________________________________________________________________________-
Yes, I have used it under extreme ,loads.
No such problems.
__________________________________________________________________________

That lever :scutch' brake round the circumference is unusual. Not only does it look as if it is very hard to access and apply, but if you have a runaway it will end up sending sparks all over the user's hand. Are you aware of the difference between 'leading' and 'trailing' brake shoes ?
___________________________________________________________________________
In 40 years of use, haven't seen a spark yet. Once the anchor is on the bottom, it slows right down, and I can slow it down more, with my foot, then drop the pawl.
_______________________________________________________________________________--

Why put the pawls so close to the axle ? That demands a very long lever, especially with a full drum. A pawl ring nearer the circumference would be much more effective and also strengthen the cheeks of the drum against the outward forces of the rope and chain.
_____________________________________________________________________________
You can build it with any diameter you like. The size in the photo has never been a problem.
___________________________________________________________________________--

It's a neat DIY device for warp storage. I'd hate to use it to heave a boat (GRP or steel ) off the putty.

__________________________________________________________________________________
Questions answered?

 

[Brent Swain]

Unfortunately Brent has found his way on to this part of the forum. He is a clown. He will not be swayed from his own ill conceived ideas and beliefs. An occasional visit to scuttlebut will demonstrate that unless it is steel, badly welded and designed on the back of a beermat, then as far as Brent is concerned, it will not float...... he has, rightly IMHO, been banned from a number of forums. His idea of an anchor winch for a motor boat sum up all you need to know about him.

Brent you constantly berate others for offering an opinion where, you believe, they have no experience or expertise. This is a classic example of you doing just that. Please go back to your floating beer keg in far flung exotic locations where you have constant internet access............on no you can’t have both can you ? All IMHO of course.

Merry Christmas.

Take a look at the picture of his boat. Unless you are in the same cruising budget range, he is the last person you should be taking advice from.
If you are on a limited budget ,then get your advice from only those who have cruised for decades on a limited budget. Those who have always had tons of money, will throw disinformation roadblocks in front of you ever escaping their hamster wheel , paying for their cruising dreams, while killing your own ,
Advice from people who assume everyone has unlimited funds ,has destroyed many a cruising dream, including designers who give zero consideration to their client's financial means, only to their own personal egos.
If there is anything which rattles snobs more than people with far less money than them, having more fun than them, it is someone who provides the info to let it happen.
That is the basis for almost all the attacks on me.

Merry Solstice!
At last ,the days are not getting shorter!
"Most wonderful time of the year"?
Dark , wet, cold?
"Real "most wonderful time of the year?
That would be July- August?
September October can be petty nice.
"Holiday season?"
Only 2 statutary holidays for us, for non union workers, Xmas and boxing day, only one for yanks.
Real "Holiday season?"
July August!

 

[Bigplumbs]

Brent

The OP who started this thread is talking about a Sealine S24. I have such a boat also. The sort of anchor winch you suggest is quite ridiculous on that boat. Perhaps you would be kind enough to go elsewhere and not pollute the OP's thread with the sort of suggestions you are making.

I know however that this will fall on deaf ears