Sète's new lifeboat

[Sybarite]

Yes, but equally there might be implications of going beyond the classification if the boat was being used commercially and something went wrong. Otherwise, what's the point in having the classification in the first place? Someone has decided that the design of this boat equates to the classification given. That someone, I would assume, knew what they were doing.

I believe that all one needs to know is :

The manufacturer has confirmed that the boat is all weather. (Who would know better?)
The description includes :

All Weather
Self-righting
Unsinkable
Bureau Veritas : "Unlimited"

To continue to doubt "est d'enculer des mouches"

 

[Sybarite]

So you accept they haven't provided it.

No. You are capable of reading what they have written aren't you?

How much detail do you want?

I think if you were running a Lifeboat service beyond 200 miles from nearest shelter and you used a boat classified to sail up to 200 miles from the nearest shelter that would be deemed bad practice at the very, very least.

Preserve me....!!!

 

[[70521]]

SANDY

No need to shout, I'm reading this and my hearing aids don't work with text

We usually keep the accountants doing what they do best.

Yes, I am an engineer, but did spend a few years working for one of the "Big Four" and have a good insight to their ways - they understood that they needed expertise on board and were willing to pay for it.

If you saw a "hidden factory" then management was poor; I hope you changed your management team.

I really do have my head round the basic problem, the amount of cash that they turnover and have as reserves is quite small compared to other organisations. Nothing we do or say is going to change anything one iota.

 

[lpdsn]

I am sure if we were a procurement dept, they would have provided it.

What on earth makes you think that? I'm quite used to dealing with vendors unverified or non-quantified claims in the day job. If they can make a precise claim they will quite readily to pretty much all and sundry (although you often have to probe anyway) but if they can't they'll use great skill to attempt to weasel their way around it.

We'll put this one down as non-compliant then.

 

[Sybarite]

What on earth makes you think that? I'm quite used to dealing with vendors unverified or non-quantified claims in the day job. If they can make a precise claim they will quite readily to pretty much all and sundry (although you often have to probe anyway) but if they can't they'll use great skill to attempt to weasel their way around it.

We'll put this one down as non-compliant then.

Whatever floats your boat...

 

[lpdsn]

Whatever floats your boat...

Funny you should say that. Asking probing questions when vendors make claims paid for a fair slice of it.

 

[Sybarite]

Funny you should say that. Asking probing questions when vendors make claims paid for a fair slice of it.

I suppose you understand what you mean.

 

[Bru]

You have the manufacturer's statement. "Next we can confirm to you that our lifeboats are all-weather boats."

All that is in question now are your increasingly ludicrous attempts to save face by denying blow-torch evidences which are staring you in the face.

Who is denying evidence? I am not denying that the manufactuer claims the boats to be "all weather", it is you who is in denial about their statement that the boats are operational up to sea state 6

I am not making that up, it is clearly stated on the manufactuers own website. In black and white. Unequivocally.

Putting aside beach launching for the moment,

But you CANNOT put aside beach launching, for the moment or not. The moment you do you are no longer making any valid comparisons or statements

For the difference in price between a Tamar and the new French CTT you could provide 60000 basic vaccination packs in the 3rd world. For me that is what is at issue.

You claim to have knowledge of charitable finance and yet you make nonsense statements like that?

You are implying that if the RNLI bought a Bernard Shipyard's CTT instead of a Tamar there would be the money to buy 60000 vaccination packs. You must surely know that that is nonsense. And nonsense of the most misleading sort at that.

Firstly, as you well know, the money would not be available from RNLI funds for any such purpose, it being outwith the remit of the RNLI

And secondly, a reduction in donations to the RNLI of that amount would NOT result in an increase in donations to 3rd world charities. That's a fallacy

"As to the main question, Sybarite has yet to propose an off the shelf solution, or any variation thereof, that is anywhere near close to meeting the basic requirements for Shannon. "

The basic requirement is to save lives. The SNSM boats do this and personally, in a bad sea, I would prefer to be in the new CTT boat.

Still avoiding the questions then

First of all this is not a requirement in France.

But it is in the UK

Secondly no boat could be beach launched in some winter storms.

So better no boat at all I assume?

Thirdly at £1.5m per carriage I am sure that an alternative could be developed at a fraction of the price : eg. a development of the remote controlled caterpillar driven travel lift which I presented.

You, an accountant, are sure. Despite being told by engineers on this forum that your idea won't fly.

The rest is just the same old same old. Yawn

 

[Sybarite]

Who is denying evidence? I am not denying that the manufactuer claims the boats to be "all weather", it is you who is in denial about their statement that the boats are operational up to sea state 6

I am not making that up, it is clearly stated on the manufactuers own website. In black and white. Unequivocally.

As this argument is becoming circular there is no point prolonging it. Other than I made a general statement about classifications. What is more I do not care. The manufacturer has confirmed the situation. End off.

But you CANNOT put aside beach launching, for the moment or not. The moment you do you are no longer making any valid comparisons or statements

You just don't get it do you? I am saying that a 61' French boat costs half what a 44' RNLI made one does. The Shannon has an additional need to be launched from a trolley. You are trying to tell me that this justifies an additional cost of £1 miilion...???

Just stick to engineering.

You claim to have knowledge of charitable finance and yet you make nonsense statements like that?

You are implying that if the RNLI bought a Bernard Shipyard's CTT instead of a Tamar there would be the money to buy 60000 vaccination packs. You must surely know that that is nonsense. And nonsense of the most misleading sort at that.

Firstly, as you well know, the money would not be available from RNLI funds for any such purpose, it being outwith the remit of the RNLI

Again you just don't get it. I never implied that for one minute. What I am saying is that if donors looked a little bit more closely at the RNLI accounts they would see that with its existing reserves it could survive for several years without any further donations. If it trimmed its life style it could probably survive several more years beyond that. In the meantime those donations could serve more immediate and pressing needs. Of course it would have to be the donors' decision, not the RNLI's. Did you really think that you had to spell that out..? I'm sure everybody else understood it.

And secondly, a reduction in donations to the RNLI of that amount would NOT result in an increase in donations to 3rd world charities. That's a fallacy

You may be right and more's the pity.

Still avoiding the questions then

I have not avoided answering any of the questions. Your problem seems to be understanding the replies.

But it is in the UK

So?

So better no boat at all I assume?

What a ridiculous non-sequitur.

You, an accountant, are sure. Despite being told by engineers on this forum that your idea won't fly.

I have not been told by an engineer that that this solution would not work. If one tried I would tell him that he has not worked through the problem.

 

[Bru]

As this argument is indeed becoming circular, it is time to call it a day. For now. No doubt it will raise it's ugly head again and again

 

[[70521]]

Sadly, I've put Sybarite on my Ignore list. I don't like doing that to users on here, but there comes a time to move on and the debate is fruitless as we cannot change things, unless Sybarite became the Financial Director and I became Chief Engineer of the RNLI (and that is not going to happen).

I am sure that if we were to sit down over a dram or two we would be able understand our differences, perhaps I am bias and keep the accountants doing what they do best, accounting and compliance work while leaving the others to run the business.

 

[Sybarite]

Sadly, I've put Sybarite on my Ignore list.

Adopting the approach of the 3 monkeys?

I have never put anyone on ignore.

I am sure that if we were to sit down over a dram or two we would be able understand our differences, perhaps I am bias and keep the accountants doing what they do best, accounting and compliance work while leaving the others to run the business.

But I have run businesses :

Family firm of builders suppliers
My own consulting firm
Running (on behalf of a client) a manufacturing concern with several hundred employees when the entire management team walked out.
Partner in an insurance agency.

 

[lpdsn]

Running (on behalf of a client) a manufacturing concern with several hundred employees when the entire management team walked out.

Were they muttering "Oh no, not the RNLI again!"

 

[[70521]]

Adopting the approach of the 3 monkeys?

OK I took a peek at Sybarite's reply.

No not the approach of the three monkeys, just I have more important and difficult things to do at the moment, and need to concentrate on those. While Sybarite is, I think, retired I am still in full time work. Still a few more years and I'll be closing the office door for the last time and leaving it up to the next generation.

 

[lpdsn]

Still a few more years and I'll be closing the office door for the last time and leaving it up to the next generation.

Don't worry, this thread will probably still be running.