Hounds baying?
Thankee kind sir!
In defence of my esteemed adversary.Sybarite is well qualified to comment on financial matters and as in the past made some potentially valid comments, or certainly, at least, posed some worthwhile questions, about the RNLI's finances and management structure.
My background is in engineering, particularly system design and implementation (originally in machine / process control systems, later in local and wide area networks) and the so called third sector as a charity volunteer, employee and trustee (not all at the same time!). So I would consider myself to be moderately well qualified to comment on general engineering matters and specifically knowledgable about UK charity management
It's worse that that. Sybarite persistently makes invalid comparisons, cherry picks facts which suit his arguments, ignores or dismisses facts which do not and wilfully presents opinions as facts.
He also, if you have been following his RNLI bashing from the start across the dozens of threads he's started or usurped on the subject, is inconsistent. On the one hand he criticises the RNLI for having too much money yet on the other he proposes they should be spending less money on cheaper boats and buildings
And now, presented with a counter-argument that he cannot find a way to dismiss, he's taken to playing the man rather than the ball
Again in fairness originally Sybarite was pointing up some worthwhile questions about the management and finances of the RNLI. Over time he has become fixated on the cost difference between the RNLI boats and facilities compared to the SNSM equivalents
He does pose a valid question. There is no avoiding the simple fact that the Shannon system (the boat and the SLS) is very expensive. The question is whether the RNLI could have procured a suitable boat, or elements thereof, more cheaply and the supplemental question is whether it would have been desirable to do so.
As to the main question, Sybarite has yet to propose an off the shelf solution, or any variation thereof, that is anywhere near close to meeting the basic requirements for Shannon. The beach launch / recovery requirement appears to be unique to the RNLI (I'll be happy and interested to be pointed at any other all weather lifeboat that is routinely beach launched over the range of surfaces and conditions that the RNLI operates with, or even at all). The RNLI did spend considerable money and development time pursuing the option of using an off-the-shelf hull design (Carmac) and decided to reboot the project and start from scratch because although the Carmac based prototype was (probably) good enough, it wasn't as good as it could be.
Whether the base Pantocarene hull is "better" (for a given value of "better") than the base Carmac hull is a moot point. Neither Sybarite nor I has anywhere near enough knowledge to make that assessment. I will however say that I have formed the opinion, based on the data available from the manufacturers, that the Pantocarene design may have some limitations in it's capabilities in extreme weather. It is not, of course, designed to operate in open ocean hurricane conditions (you don't board pilots sixty miles offshore in the Atantic in an F12!) and it does appear to be particularly efficient in the conditions it is designed to operate in. Whether it would have been a suitable base for the Mersey lifeboat replacement is another unknown. I would assume that the RNLI development team looked at it and rejected it, but I don't know that for sure, and I would guess that the answer is no for the above reasons but that is merely my opinion
And then there's the political elephant in the room. Even if the Pantocarene design is suitable, would it be politically (in the broadest sense) acceptable for the RNLI to procure an overseas design from a foreign company? whilst I, and any reasonably sensible person, would say "yes, if it's the best available option", there are plenty of xenophobes, and particularly Francophobes, who would be unhappy, to say the least, with RNLI spending money outside of the UK and I have to say that the elderly well to do legacy benefactors feature more than their fair share of such anti-European attitudes. So a decision to buy a French design could have, I say could not would, impacted on legacy income and fund raising
And that brings us to the decision by the RNLI to take production in-house, which is anathema to Sybarite and his ilk. It stems from the acquisition by the RNLI of Green Marine in Lymington. Green Marine were the only company in the UK with the capability of building the RNLIs lifeboat hulls and the owners were retiring and putting the business up for sale. After investigating all their options, including potential overseas suppliers,, the RNLI (rightly in my opinion) decided to acquire the company and secure its supply chain. From there, the logical step was to carry that through and bring the fitting out of the hulls in-house.
Now in one respect Sybarite is quite right. In-house low volume production tends to be inherently more expensive than outsourcing production to the lowest bidder. But that assumes that there is a competitive market, with spare capacity, for the production of the "product" in question. There certainly isn't that market in the UK and that brings us back to the issue of whether it would be politically acceptable to buy the boats themselves from abroad let alone the design.
There is also the simple fact, and I have far too much personal experience of this, that outsourced production comes with its own significant issues. It may (or may not) be cheaper but it does inevitably mean a loss of direct control over quality, production scheduling, etc. and it leaves the end user vulnerable to external forces over which they have no control such as the supplier going out of business etc.
Given that the RNLI can financially afford to take production in-house, and thus retain a UK based ability and facility to build all weather and inshore lifeboats, I'm all in favour of it both from an engineering and a political perspective (the pursuit of ever lower costs and the drive to outsourcing was one of the significant factors in the decline of much of the UKs engineering industry. Cheaper is not always better!)
Anyway, I've waffled enough and it's time for breakfast
Nevertheless the Shannon is an evolution of the Carmac hull design, whereas the pantocarene hull is a relatively new concept which has found favour all over the world.
Yeah right.... RNLI - 13 years to deliver the Shannon...!!