Sète's new lifeboat

rotrax said:
Thanks fisherman-as I posted earlier criticism is fine if it is constructive.

Apart from Sybarite who wishes the RNLI to be more frugal and is making comparisons based solely on cost, very little of a constructive nature.

Even Sybarite's suggestions might not work. For example, he is comparing size and cost to the new French one. Bigger boats would require a bigger building for the ones housed thus, increasing costs.

At the moment, money or the percieved value for money, is not an issue for the RNLI.

When and if it is, they will adapt or go down the tubes.

They provide a reliable SAR service with little criticism by those unfortunate to need them.

Nuff said, methinks...............................
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A fact which distinguishes successful organizations is that they act before circumstances oblige them to act.
 
I think the reason that Sybarite is perceived as "always going on about this" is that his well meaning (I'm sure) suggestions fall on deaf ears, stony ground etc.

Why shouldn't the RNLI improve its financial efficiency. It might enable them to contribute in other ways to rescue services. For example they could supplement the MCA SAR services with helo support where there are large gaps in existing provisions or they could provide additional radar surveillance of high risk coastal areas
 
Hoolie said:
I think the reason that Sybarite is perceived as "always going on about this" is that his well meaning (I'm sure) suggestions fall on deaf ears, stony ground etc.

Why shouldn't the RNLI improve its financial efficiency. It might enable them to contribute in other ways to rescue services. For example they could supplement the MCA SAR services with helo support where there are large gaps in existing provisions or they could provide additional radar surveillance of high risk coastal areas
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The RNLI are not a business. AFAIK they are obliged to conduct their charity within rules, especially rules regarding the use of finance and reserves.

In short, they cant sit on the monies donated to them and let it build up and use the interest, but must use a proportion of their capital each fiscal period.

Donations are sometimes given with conditions attatched which can be troublesome to meet.

If they became more efficient, saved loads of money short term it might bite them in the bum later.

Fisherman, who said on here he is a charity trustee might be able to comment with greater insight on my take of things.
 
jonjo7 said:
The BBC showed evidence last week on prime time TV of an RNLI beach launch going horribly wrong.
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the preamble to the Mersey beach launch and the Atlantic 21 capsize was " sometimes things go wrong" although why footage of Newhaven Severn searching close inshore, an incident given wide coverage at the time, since it did not constitute something going wrong.

THE Mersey was an exercise soon after the boat arrived on station, the first in rough weather and was a new launching method for that station. The Shannon system is designed with safety in mind, no crew are needed on deck the boat being released inside the wheelhouse, having launched off an open beach in f9 it is surely something to be
commended.
 
rotrax said:
With due respect, I think it is clear that those circumstances are not yet on the horizon.
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With due respect successful organizations tend to see potential problems before others because they are always testing the status quo.

Given the very high fixed cost operating model they have adopted it would take a long time to unwind if needs were to be.
 
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dogleg said:
the preamble to the Mersey beach launch and the Atlantic 21 capsize was " sometimes things go wrong" although why footage of Newhaven Severn searching close inshore, an incident given wide coverage at the time, since it did not constitute something going wrong.

THE Mersey was an exercise soon after the boat arrived on station, the first in rough weather and was a new launching method for that station. The Shannon system is designed with safety in mind, no crew are needed on deck the boat being released inside the wheelhouse, having launched off an open beach in f9 it is surely something to be
commended.
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If they could do the same thing at half the price?
 
Incidentally I raised the basic points of this thread directly with the RNLI.

They confirmed on Oct 25 that they would get back to me soon.
 
Sybarite said:
Incidentally I raised the basic points of this thread directly with the RNLI.

They confirmed on Oct 25 that they would get back to me soon.
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Maybe one of the reasons that the French set up appears to be cheaper is because they don't have to waste time dealing with people who don't even live in the same country asking them stupid questions?
 
Sybarite said:
With due respect successful organizations tend to see potential problems before others because they are always testing the status quo.

Given the very high fixed cost operating model they have adopted it would take a long time to unwind if needs were to be.
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Are you suggesting they do not have a model looking forward?

If that is your perception what evidence is available to back it up?

As was said before, the RNLI have survived several wars, two of them major, and many recessions.

So far their forward planning has coped.

I am done on this subject. We have two differing viewpoints, finance being at the root of it.

If there was a vote as to the population of the UK being happy with having their waterbourne SAR service carried out by one major and many smaller charities I am pretty sure how the vote would go.
 
Sybarite said:
Incidentally I raised the basic points of this thread directly with the RNLI.

They confirmed on Oct 25 that they would get back to me soon.
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will you accept what they say unless they admit that you are 100% correct , incidentally I could make many criticisms of the RNLI but quality of boats, launching equipment and back up from technical staff when needed is not one of them
 
It is true that a charity is not expected to sit on accumulated funds, but as a broad rule of thumb should hold a year's turnover in reserve. Given the long term nature of the RNLI and its provisions that might be a little skimpy. It is also expected to discharge its duties in its area of benefit. Accounts are submitted to the commission yearly. The Charity Commission can move in a mysterious way: a small local charity has been de registered due to non submission of accounts and lack of response to enquiries. I asked the CC could we simply ignore them in the same way and sidle off with our assets (no).
Sybarite might be seen as simply trailing his coat in here on this favourite subject, knowing there are many in here who support the RNLI without question, and he has said maybe we should think about shifting support elsewhere. That might be a good thing if we can be sure the RNLI is left with just sufficient funds to discharge its obligations without further profligacy. If we can know exactly how much that is it would be a help.
Not having a dig at Sybarite for holding this view and promoting it here, just think it's pointless. Engage the media, and good luck with that.
I know about the RNLI media machine, and it is their lifeblood.
My friend went to a point six miles from the area where two divers had been searched for over six hours and found them on his first sweep. (Channelyacht may be able to enlighten us, Train Wreck, august 2008) Although they wanted to return to Hayle where their car and people were, the CG insisted on transfer to the St Ives LB, who came alongside and had to be told to 'go away' as there was too much sea running. The transfer took place just off the pierhead, where they were landed to face the panoply of cameras after their ordeal. Much embarrassment all round, the divers admitted the best dive master was in the water, and was ex SAR, he gave no credit to the SAR at all, only to the fisherman who worked out exactly where to go. Rumour was the CG had no one to work the tide computation, but can hardly believe that. They were lost N of St Ives head, found off Pendeen. No one was tasked to look there. See, things can go wrong, even with the best intentions.

Sorry edit, 2007 aug 4th
 
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grumpy_o_g said:
Maybe one of the reasons that the French set up appears to be cheaper is because they don't have to waste time dealing with people who don't even live in the same country asking them stupid questions?
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So you think that asking them why a 61' lifeboat costs half as much as a 44' lifeboat with the same engines is a stupid question?

I'll let others judge.
 
fisherman said:
It is true that a charity is not expected to sit on accumulated funds, but as a broad rule of thumb should hold a year's turnover in reserve. Given the long term nature of the RNLI and its provisions that might be a little skimpy. It is also expected to discharge its duties in its area of benefit. Accounts are submitted to the commission yearly. The Charity Commission can move in a mysterious way: a small local charity has been de registered due to non submission of accounts and lack of response to enquiries. I asked the CC could we simply ignore them in the same way and sidle off with our assets (no).
Sybarite might be seen as simply trailing his coat in here on this favourite subject, knowing there are many in here who support the RNLI without question, and he has said maybe we should think about shifting support elsewhere. That might be a good thing if we can be sure the RNLI is left with just sufficient funds to discharge its obligations without further profligacy. If we can know exactly how much that is it would be a help.
Not having a dig at Sybarite for holding this view and promoting it here, just think it's pointless. Engage the media, and good luck with that.
I know about the RNLI media machine, and it is their lifeblood.
My friend went to a point six miles from the area where two divers had been searched for over six hours and found them on his first sweep. (Channelyacht may be able to enlighten us, Train Wreck, august 2008) Although they wanted to return to Hayle where their car and people were, the CG insisted on transfer to the St Ives LB, who came alongside and had to be told to 'go away' as there was too much sea running. The transfer took place just off the pierhead, where they were landed to face the panoply of cameras after their ordeal. Much embarrassment all round, the divers admitted the best dive master was in the water, and was ex SAR, he gave no credit to the SAR at all, only to the fisherman who worked out exactly where to go. Rumour was the CG had no one to work the tide computation, but can hardly believe that. They were lost N of St Ives head, found off Pendeen. No one was tasked to look there. See, things can go wrong, even with the best intentions.
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Do you really mean a year's turnover or a year's operating costs should be held in reserves?

May I remind that the annual spend on lifeboats has averaged out at about 7% of revenues - and that is for boats which cost twice as much as the (better?) French boats.
 
Sybarite said:
Do you really mean a year's turnover or a year's operating costs should be held in reserves?

May I remind that the annual spend on lifeboats has averaged out at about 7% of revenues - and that is for boats which cost twice as much as the (better?) French boats.
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In our case operating costs, but our outgoings are related to our income so not too difficult, and we can adjust income a bit by charging more for our services (car park). I would expect the RNLI to need a bit more, to give time to change course if revenues decline.
Yes you may remind me, it won't change anything, I may or may not approve of the RNLI model, I won't argue. Your position seems to be the RNLI is profligate, we should think twice about donating. As I asked above, how much should we donate, to safeguard a more streamlined service? Your assertion, your decision.


An example: I had an online argument with the University of St Andrews about some flawed research, and with Prof Robert Elwood of Queen's Belfast about similar. Relating this to another scientist he pointed out that my assertions achieved precisely nothing, I should have put them out in the same place the original was published. People on here are broadly uncritical of the RNLI. Will you get any satisfaction if one or two change their minds?
 
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