RYA yachtmaster logbook entries

[onesea]

Rather not go down the road of whether they tacked or gybed according to Bob Bond's 'method'!

I can understand that, but when its your time and money you would feel differently.

For your information, often when I and others have encountered this it has been described as "the method" or "technique" and is normally prevalent around RYA sailing schools/ centres.

Then you see the way some examiners/ instructors defend there methods over even wording or OXO verses 0888 etc etc it does not encourage those who learned elsewhere to consider the RYA route.

 

[claymore]

Sorry, think I'm being dim - if you need a qualification then you obviously need to satisfy the standards.
Being self taught is not a crime, nor a sin, nor does it make one a child of a lesser God. As I say, the only difficulty arises if you don't pass muster in terms of an examiner. I suppose thats why its a good idea to have a few formal lesons before one takes ones driving test, for example.

The method was a real achievement in its day in that it achieved ( more or less) standardisation in UK teaching establishments.

 

[mcframe]

Furthermore, like many examiners I have sailed over most of Europe and lots of the Med and USA and some of the Carib. It's an unusual log book that doesn't include a few places I've sailed into so conversations about some of the places can be very revealing!

Hehehe!

"What's colour of the boathouse in Hearford?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM

 

[john_morris_uk]

Hehehe!

"What's colour of the boathouse in Hearford?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM

I had to watch loads of that before I got the hang of your question!

Answer: I have no idea, what colour would you like it to be?

 

[mcframe]

I had to watch loads of that before I got the hang of your question!

Answer: I have no idea, what colour would you like it to be?

Sorry - I was being waay too cryptic - the plot element is that it's a trick question ;->

On an exam (upon scanning logbook):
Hmm, St Vaast - good job it's all-tide - did you get in before Madame Gosselin closed?
Is Danny's Bar still in English Harbour? - Did you go for the Slam-Dunk $20 Special?
What's the name of the Harbourmaster at Ryde?
Alderney? Bray is fine in a north easterly, but I'd hate to approach in a south-westerly...
etc.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=224383

No doubt the RYA would frown on examiners using such tactics.

 

[ytd]

thank you everyone for all your replies. Now I look at it I see the logbook is designed for 1 line per passage. It's just that those column headings didn't gel with my idea of what goes in a "logbook". And the person at the school reception had no experience of the RYA YM qualification as they are fairly new to Australia (the person and the qualification). Hence the reason for my post.

I know I could get an ICC just doing the day skipper course but it seems to me that YM preparation courses have more scope for "recognition of prior learning". The powerboat licence should also get me an ICC but I will be long gone before state bureaucracies harmonise their boating regulations so that we can get a national licence.

And as posters have pointed out, who knows how many bad habits I have accumulated over the years. I'm sure lots of shortcuts we take when racing would be frowned on in an exam and I want to know which ones. I am often amazed at different practices on different boats. Recently I crewed on a racing yacht where the skipper was cranky when I locked off a halyard tail on the cleat with a half hitch on the basis that it might jam. I always advise crew on my boat to lock off any rope on a horn cleat because otherwise they might slip. I don't know who is correct but it might be nice to know the "official" practice sought by an examiner.

 

[onesea]

Sorry, think I'm being dim - if you need a qualification then you obviously need to satisfy the standards.
Being self taught is not a crime, nor a sin, nor does it make one a child of a lesser God. As I say, the only difficulty arises if you don't pass muster in terms of an examiner. I suppose thats why its a good idea to have a few formal lesons before one takes ones driving test, for example.

The method was a real achievement in its day in that it achieved ( more or less) standardisation in UK teaching establishments.

Not learning the RYA way does not mean you are self taught, just that you where taught by different people. I know it does not make me a any lesser sailor you only need to look at some of the "qualified" people here in the solent to realise that

In the end I passed my the courses I set out to. I had to learn "methods" that to be honest did not think made me a better sailor. One of these was literally crossing my hands at the wrong time in a dinghy.

Plus I know I am not the only one whohas encountered this.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am getting more and more anxious about all these references to 'the RYA method or way if doing things'. As far as yachting (ie sailing on big boats) is concened there isn't an 'RYA' method. As far as examining is concerned, I am expected to make a judgement as to whether what you do is safe and seamanlike. Whether you put a locking hitch on a cleat really is your business as some people do and some people don't and it usually doesnt alter the price of fish... If you Gybe all standing and nearly kill the crew then you are going to fail! Trying to pick up moorings down wind and down tide doesn't impress either, but hopefully you get my point.

The only thing that schools get encourage to teach is the reach tack reach man over board recovery method when sailing. The reason is that it's repeatable. If someone uses a different method successfully and skilfully during an exam (and I don't think it was a fluke that they picked up the MOB) then we might talk about it a bit, but they are certainly not going to fail for not doing it in the way sea schools are encouraged to teach MOB.

There are some tricks you ought to know. Eg if you start your passage with the mainsail cover still on and without the halyard connected then you might find yourself with 'engine failure' rather quickly.

I hope that this helps. Enjoy your sailing. The scheme is supposed to encourage you and sailing is supposed to be fun.

 

[dslittle]

The examiner reckoned that he would know within 30 minutes if anybody had falsified their mileage record.

The examiner sussed out one of my fellow candidates very quickly and examined them far more than the three of us who had a few more miles under our belt. My main memory of the whole examination was of 'grown up sailing'. The examiner was very pragmatic and I actually felt that l learned from the experience rather than felt under pressure (well apart from dodging ships in the TSS at night). I think that most examiners can identify people who have the requisite knowledge and experience without the need for bits of paper.

 

[DJE]

As far as yachting (ie sailing on big boats) is concened there isn't an 'RYA' method. As far as examining is concerned, I am expected to make a judgement as to whether what you do is safe and seamanlike.

That was certainly the impression I got from my examiner. At the end of each task there was a bit of a chat centred around "Did we achieve the objective?" and "Was there a better way of doing it?"

 

[claymore]

Ithought I had made it clear that I was referring to the RYA Dinghy structure, not offshore. I attempted to draw a comparison, which I believe is valid, between experienced people presenting themselves for assessment be they in a dinghy or an offshore boat.
I never suggested there was a ' method' attached to offshore but I will make the point that there is standardisation of content. Or do you disagree?

Obviously I failed in terms of clearly communicating that, - for which I apologise

 

[john_morris_uk]

Ithought I had made it clear that I was referring to the RYA Dinghy structure, not offshore. I attempted to draw a comparison, which I believe is valid, between experienced people presenting themselves for assessment be they in a dinghy or an offshore boat.
I never suggested there was a ' method' attached to offshore but I will make the point that there is standardisation of content. Or do you disagree?

Obviously I failed in terms of clearly communicating that, - for which I apologise

No need to apologise. I may have missed something in the thread. I only have access to the forum via my phone at the moment. I am aware that there is a laid down 'RYA' method for dinghy sailing, and I was only commenting because it appeared that some people appeared to get the impression that the same applied to yachting. Hopefully there's no misunderstanding now.

The syllabus contents are well known and published in G15 among other places but for obvious reasons the precise methods are left vague. After all 'being able to reef' means lots of things. Some one might sail an East Coast smack, another might sail a brand new Oyster or such like with in mast furling, and another might sail an elderly GRP boat which could have a roller boom system or have been converted to slab reefing. Techniques might differ greatly! Same as some boats heave to nicely and others are sods and get blown all over the place.

 

[savsail]

Yachtmaster Exam

I agree with DJM. The instructor and examiner will soon know if you are experienced enough to qualify.

 

[onesea]

I agree with DJM. The instructor and examiner will soon know if you are experienced enough to qualify.

This discussion is quickly becoming a "Yes I did" "No I didn't" I stand by the comments I have made I do not see the need for anyone to apologise.

Teaching sailing is a variable skill and there is often no right or wrong, as to the standard required? Enough people have self taught and done some phenomenal passages to make you wonder if teaching is required

I guess I have just seen 1 or 2 people I would not hesitate take my child sailing, fail exams for what I would say where insignificant reasons. There are people that do not bother for similar reasons.

Then particularly since moving to the Solent you can see people who are qualified but I would not want on my boat.

 

[madmitch]

That was certainly the impression I got from my examiner. At the end of each task there was a bit of a chat centred around "Did we achieve the objective?" and "Was there a better way of doing it?"

Hmmm....when I did a YM OS I had one YMI on the prep week whine on about springs needing to be nice and long, ie stern to midships, inspite of pointing out to him that the length of a spring did not make the blindest bit of difference, and giving him a tutorial of "moments law" from GCSE physics, he would not have it as that was the way "the RYA" teach it - happily the YM examiner was a very practical man who took a "is it safe, logical and does it work" approach. The same instructer also berated me for deciding not to put an extra line to the shore on when we were brested up to another boat...........we were in a 36' plastic fantastic and we breasted up to an 85T wooden schooner......He relented afetr I explained that (1) we did not actualy have the required amount of line and (2) if tide or wind moved the boats, our cleats would be ripped out........

 

[Enya]

As an aspiring Yachtmaster Coastal, it has become clear to me that there is a syllabus and the competencies sought will be related to this. Like passing the driving test, it is necessary to be very clear about what these competencies are. In my experience you can get about the Solent and the local coast very well without the full range of skills so I think it is important to test competence in the range of the syllabus. Any Sailing School can prepare you if you want to spend the money but if you have your own boat it pays to get hold of a couple of good books by authors that appeal to you. I have found Fernhurst's Skippers Practical Handbook by Richard Crooks and Coastal and Offshore Navigation by Cunliffe complementary and readable. Now to get a comp crew and practice.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I agree with DJM. The instructor and examiner will soon know if you are experienced enough to qualify.

They might not know "soon enough": the Examiner could be prejudiced, could remiss in their duty. I have seen both and it doesn't do the scheme any favours. Examiners are not demigods, they have all the fallibilities of midshipmen.

I think that a log is important as it does demonstrate some commitment to monitor experience. Very often, individuals overestimate their ability and a log is very good for maintaining a realistic estimate of potential and allowing a candidate to create a development plan; current logbook format does not facilitate this.