RYA & Fuel

Re: Elsewhere in the EU

I think you'll find that pump prices elsewhere in the EU are not 95p per litre.

It's more the case that we in the UK have the highest fuel prices in the EU (apart from Red Diesel). The French don't take it sitting down: every time the government tries to substantially raise fuel duties, the entire country gets paralysed by lorries for a few weeks.

dave.

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Re: As a Raggie

I somewhat resent your remarks regarding the lack of community spirit. On certain subjects, you will find no one more vocal than I, regarding the failings of those vile polluting Stinkies. Just ask the Fray Bentos free BrendanS. In this case I am supporting you. I think all boaters should stick together to fight the threats to our freedom thatb are mounting at the moment!.

Martin

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Re: As a Raggie

Yes I did sound a bit abrupt! As often happens it did not come out as I intended. I know that most boaters of whatever type will support each other, it just disappoints me when there seems to be some sort of a rift between the two. We really do need to be united otherwisebwe will see all sorts of potential threats to our sport/hobby/passtime.

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No one, as far as I can tell has so far mentioned the fishermen.

It was fishermen who were originally granted permission to use red diesel to put them on the the same footing as farmers. It proved too difficult, complex and expensive to have different pumps providing DERV for the then small number of pleasure craft and red for fishing boats so motorboaters were winners.

Now with leisure out numbering work boats by a huge margin, if the red diesel concession was withdrawn it would be almost impossible for fishing and small commercial boats to find a convenient source of fuel.

Returning to the question whether the RYA should campaign for something without consulting its members, well of course it does consult. The RYA is a member driven organisation and the full time officers follow policies laid down by committees of members elected by clubs and personal members or co-opted for their special skills and knowledge. These people feed in the views from the grass roots on which these campaigns are based.

If you don't call this consultation, would you like the RYA to stop its campaigns against compulsory registration, licencing, tests and all the other work it does on behalf of cruising sailors and motorboaters?



<hr width=100% size=1>JJ
 
Re: As a Raggie

Bottom line is, we should stick together on this, or we will be divided and conquered.

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Extract from Budget Speech, 2014

..."It has long been accepted that fuels for propulsion should be taxed taking into account all the relevant economic, social and environmental factors. The abolition of Red Diesel in 2006 had the effect of reducing the number of licensed motor boats by 60% compared to the 2002 peak.

The resulting drop in revenues from the leisure watercraft industry has led us to seek an alternative source of taxation revenue to fund our education programs, the continuing reform of the NHS, and the Strategic Rail Authority.

The introduction of "Sail Area Duty" (incorrectly referred to in some tabloids as the "keel charge") will harmonise this situation, and will also provide proper funding for the expansion of the leisure user licensing, training, and tracking system, which will become compulsory for all vessels sailing in UK waters in 2016.

The tracking system will enable the phasing in of "Graduated Sail Area Duty", a system of sliding charges such that vessels that sail in the most congested waters (e.g. The Solent), will pay proportionally more than those sailing in less congested waters. This will reflect the increased costs in these areas of buoyage and lighting, Coastguard facilities, and the impact to commercial vessels.

Automated Fines will be issued to vessels that sail outside the "regions" that they have purchased in their Graduated Sail Area Duty. It is the responsibility of the master of the vessel to ensure that all regions have been correctly purchased before the commencement of the voyage. Appeals against automated region violation fines in the case of genuine emergency will be considered on a case by case basis by the "Graduated Sail Area Duty Region Violation Tribunal".

A typical 35 foot sailing vessel would expect to pay approximately £2500 per year to sail in an area that was moderately congested, for example, the area 10 miles offshore from Weymouth to Christchurch.

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Re: The trouble is

that, what you are suggesting may occur, sounds horribly like "Light Dues" to me!

Martin

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Re: The trouble is

I don't mind paying the taxed price for diesel provided we get the low-sulphur stuff that is sold at garage pumps. "Red" diesel is much higher in sulphur so puts sulphuric acid into the atmosphere when burned. Not making this point is regrettably characteristic of the RYAs tendency to support environmental issues that favour yotties but to ignore or slag off those that don't.

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I object to an tax

OK - so I'm an expat - but I spend a lot of money in UK and also pay tax's on many items - so why should I pay fuel tax ? When I know how much it really costs ????
To pay duty etc. on top of what is a lower grade fuel and so get near to Raod fuel price is no-way Jim land.

Forget it - the RYA in my opinion is often going down some strange roads that bear no relation to the average budget yottie like me. BUT this time - I agree with them trying to keep it - why not. Why give money away, for what will it really be used for ? improvement of marine or just into govt. coffers to be swallowed up in the great Euro fest ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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But then you will be contravening Customs and Excise ....

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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My money

yes, the Tb revolution has essentially attempted to reverse the idea that the money is yours. There is logic in having no income tax...and equal logic in having 100% tax which at current rates will happen in about fifteen years.

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Ok - return to old post ....

Who fancies equal shares in a disused Road Tanker filled with Red Diesel and placed strategically at a suitable point for share-holders to have red D for significant period of future ?

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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Re: I object to an tax

Well I for one will not pay UK prices for diesel if red diesel is discontinued. I will simply fill up in France at the same time as stocking up on booze, as I suspect the majority of raggies will do.

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Raggies AND MOBO\'s UNITE ....

Stop the petty bckering and squabbling about MOBO's and Raggies ..... reminds of being on ships when DEckies and Engineers used to squabble about Oil and Water not mixing ..... its stupid and gets you nowhere.

WE ALL ENJOY cheap diesel - I use about 100 litres a year - and thats being generous, so what ?? The MOBO few berths down from me uses that in an afternoon - so what ??

C'mon guys and dolls - we all enjoy the water and the sense of freedom and spirit it gives. Lets not bring the office politics mentality out there as well.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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Re: It is hard

to argue against the green case. What really gets up my nose is that successive Governments use this as an excuse for higher & higher unfair Taxes. E.G. the massive Taxes we pay on road fuel because of the horrible polution caused by the Motor Car but none, or an insignificant amount, of the money raised from Fuel Tax is used to enhance Public Transport to encourage us off the roads. When they do come up with another half arsed initiative, we are told that we have got to pay first before the new benefit will come on stream, then by magic it gets forgotten about, in the distant future, before we see any benefit.

I heard some prat the other day saying how they were going to institute Congestion Charges in Edinburgh, then he admitted that they had no way of handling the potential increase in commuters this would cause. Sounds like another back door tax to me.

However laudible they are, it seems to me that, Green Issues are just another way for central government to con the public out of more revenue.

Martin

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Re: Elsewhere in the EU

Not true - been to Belgium lately?

Last time across paid €0.45 / litre (approx £0.30 - more or less UK price) whilst at the pump it was €0.74 / litre (approx £0.50 - way below UK price).

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!
 
Green issues ....

Being in the oil related industry !! It always amazes me that many politicians and Greenpeace do-ggoders spout out such grand ideas and alternatives ...... but a) they don't work, b) cause other problems that then another dept etc. has to then solve, c) increase costs, d) again cause the same idiots to propose another measure ....... it is a circle that seems to never end.

No-one seems to consider the result to movement, creation of bottlenecks, problems that all these fancy schemes create.

But of course we are now of the main point of Red Diesel ...

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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Blair and Gordon already have a name

WMD

Water Motive Duty

So pay up or the bloody army comes to collect it !!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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