RYA deserve some credit

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I have been reading with interest the recent posts about the RYA YM qualifications and just wanted to share my thoughts. The UK is still the only European counrty that does not enforce compulsary qualification for anyone wanting to take to the water, the French and Spanish goverments even have licences that extend right down to 9.9 horsepower outbaords! The RYA must take the majority of the credit for so far resisting the goverments attempts to introduce similar legislation.

About six years ago when the MCA first started hinting that professional yachtmaster qualifications were to be introduced to British flagged vessels opinion was divided some, like myself, grumbled about the cost of the associated courses and inconvenience of taking time off to complete the courses but went ahead and did them anyway and others chose to simply ignore the MCA's warnings assuming nothing would ever come of it.

We now have no choice but to live with the MCA rules which are becoming stricter and effecting smaller and smaller yachts all the time. The pathetically ineffectual PYA (the Professional Yachtsmens Association) was set up to supposedly give us all a voice and to open channels of communication with the MCA. Nobody took much notice with the result that the MCA steamrollered it's ideas through with nothing being done until it was too far gone to stop them or at least curtail their plans

The point I am trying to make is that SOONER OR LATER COMPULSARY QUALIFICATIONS WILL BE BROUGHT IN WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. It is surely better to either back the RYA as the only recognised voice of the people or do something to make your feelings heard before it is too late?
 
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Why inevitable?

Go on just tell me> I know I'm stupid but I just can't get a grasp of the reasoning. Well I assume that it's reasoning - the nanny state is now warning us about the harmful effects of just about anything including watching penalty shootouts in soccer games and how we might thereby succumb to a cardiac event. Shagging puts up your blood pressure; are they going to try to regulate that as well for "our own good" or put health warnings on bedroom doors & condoms?

Steve Cronin

Have a great Christmas and fair winds in the New Year.
 
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Re: Why inevitable?

Unfornunately I think you hit the nail on the head - resoning just doesn't come into it! I just rather cynically assume that it is naive to think the goverment will let poeple continue indefinitely without some kind of involvement.
 

Twister_Ken

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Re: Why inevitable?

Whether inevitable or not, I see no sign of the RYA jumping up and down saying "Sailing is a safe sport. More people die skiing or horse riding or mountain walking. We don't need regulation"

Nor do they organise blockades of ferry ports, or convoys up the Thames to parliament to get across the way boaters feel about the prospect of regulation.

It's more a case of having coffee and biscuits with some civil servant and hoping for the best whilst polishing up their CVs for a job in the MCA when the worst does happen.
 

vyv_cox

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Qualification correction.

UK is far from being the only country that does not have compulsory qualification. Holland definitely does not, Belgium I think not, Denmark I think not, Norway not, Italy I don't think so, Greece not, Ireland not. Not at all sure about your Spanish statement either, nobody asked me for my qualifications there.
 
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Re: Qualification correction.

I stand corrected, I should have said one of the few major sailing countries. You would not have been asked for your qualifications in Spain as I assume you are a British citizen and therefore don't need any.
 
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Re: Why inevitable?

Fair comment, but surely you will agree that the RYA is the most recognised and high profile yachting organisation and should be encouraged to put your thoughts and comments more forcefully if need be, rather than dismissed as weak willed and out of touch?
 

Twister_Ken

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In response

>you will agree that the RYA is the most recognised and high profile yachting organisation<

Yes - for racing, yes for supporting a training industry (of which i am personally very suspicious - certificates do not make skippers).

But what does the RYA do for your average weekend sailor? What stance has it taken on increasing moorings/reducing mooring costs (none). Does it organise rallies (no). Boat swaps (no). Publish cruising guides (no). Provide local representation in cruising areas at home and abroad (no).

It's propoganda says it is the leading body, but I think reality is far from that.
 
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Re: better the devil you know?

It seems to me starting up other organisations would only encourage petty one upmanship and critisism between rival organisations/groups, it must appear better in the eyes of anybody trying to interfere if the yachting community is seen to be united behind it's own "self ruling" body? Therefore negating the need for outside involvement.
 
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Re: In response

You will certainly have more experience and proof of the RYA's shortcomings than me and I agree it should be doing more than it presently is, it simply seems to me that the majority of sailors would rather just head out to sea (and who can blame them)and ignore upcoming potential problems only to jump on the bandwagon and criticise others (without actively trying to help) when things don't go their way or they disagree with qualifications/structure/etc.
 

jimboaw

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Re: Qualification correction.

and as an expat in the US I can confirm there is no requirement for a qualification here for private boat owners.FWIW I could see this problem on the distant horizon 35 years ago with the growth of the charter business. Like lemmings folks rushed to get a bit of paper to show the charter co's that they were "competant" and in doing so they sowed the seed for regulation. I have my log books from my first cross channel trip 35 years ago,a little jaunt to the Canaries and Madiera + a recent year and a half long Carribean cruise. Will I get grandfathered in by the MCA if I return to the UK??
 
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Re: Qualification correction.

surely that is the whole point, if the MCA continue to exert tighter and tighter control you will have no choice but join the "lemmings" and get some proof that you are competent. It is interesting to note that the US do not have any requirements for private yachts I didn,y know that.

Their commercial tickets however are an absolute farce, multiple choice questions virtually no practical exam to speak of, they are IMHO quite literally not worth the paper they are written on.
 

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Just a precision with respect to France. A "permis" is required for engines down to 9.9hp when this is the principal means of propulsion. No permit is required if sail is the principal form ( again the civil servants have worked out some complicated formula for determining which is preponderant ). Eg on my 31 foot Feeling with an 18hp engine I don't need the "permis".

On the other hand if I am professionally engaged in sailing eg sailing school, or charter skipper then I do.

I criticize the compulsory registration on one hand but when you look into the detailed safety requirements they are mainly very sensible.
 
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I admire the French system, most people I talk to echo your thoughts that compulsory regulations are tiresome but seem to agree that most of the criteria are sensible, also the professional skippers ticket (PPV?) strikes me as excellent with students completing a year or so of full time college covering everything from navigation right down to engine maintanence and fibreglass repairs etc. The RYA and MCA could do a lot worse than taking a closer look to our French cousins.

P.S. I wonder if it is any coincidence that with greater involvement/interest from the goverment the French are streets ahead of us in terms of international racing success, support from the general public and healthy yacht building industry.

P.P.S. Before anyone jumps down my throat,Ellen Macarthur, Team GBR and Sunseeker/Princess etc.represent an excellent start but we still have a long way to go IMHO
 

david_bagshaw

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Re: Qualification correction.

I was under the impression in the Netherlands, Vaarbewijs is needed for inland waters, & Waddenzee & Westerschelde, for boats over 15 mtrs or above about 20Kph, or an equivelent home qualification, for foriegners. since 1992.(which was why I did YM to cover us)

At the same time the minimum age of steersman was set at 16.

David
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