Rya competent crew

[stevensuf]

i dont know some trainers are more like examiners and take it all too seriously, the coastal skipper is a little deeper than day skipper, but really only a slight extension, the jump from comp crew to day skipper is large but from day to coastal only slight.

 

[LadyInBed]

navigation may be an extra skill, but pilotage is pretty much commonsense if you can read a chart & a tide table.

and if you can't, well that's a shore based course anyhow

 

[Hazeltine]

So the courses have an exam? Not like the dinghy stuff then?

 

[stevensuf]

the shore based courses have an exam, the practical are by continuous assessment.

 

[Seajet]

the shore based courses have an exam, the practical are by continuous assessment.

Not sure about that, unless things have changed ?

For our ymo exam an independent examiner came on board ( the instructor left so the examiner could have the aft cabin ) and put us all through our paces over 2 days. Not sure if that happens on Day / Coastal Skipper but I got the impression it was similar.

 

[prv]

For our ymo exam an independent examiner came on board ( the instructor left so the examiner could have the aft cabin ) and put us all through our paces over 2 days. Not sure if that happens on Day / Coastal Skipper but I got the impression it was similar.

Nope.

The Yachtmaster certificates involve an exam, whereas the Skipper courses are assessed by the instructor over the week. This is why there are now two different flavours of Coastal.

Pete

 

[stevensuf]

the mca coastal skipper is different from the bog standard coastal skipper (~yeah confusing) the mca & yachtmaster have an exam by an independent rya examiner separate from the school or can take place on your own boat.

 

[prv]

the mca coastal skipper is different from the bog standard coastal skipper (~yeah confusing) the mca & yachtmaster have an exam by an independent rya examiner separate from the school or can take place on your own boat.

I presume that's why we now have both Yachtmaster Coastal and Coastal Skipper. The former qualification is awarded after a practical exam, the latter is "merely" a course with a completion certificate.

Pete

 

[rotrax]

Not sure about that, unless things have changed ?

For our ymo exam an independent examiner came on board ( the instructor left so the examiner could have the aft cabin ) and put us all through our paces over 2 days. Not sure if that happens on Day / Coastal Skipper but I got the impression it was similar.

On all my RYA courses the instructor carried out the assesment. I have only taken RYA training to CS practical level. The YM qualification uses a group of Yachtmaster Exaniners to take the practical element and to pass or fail as they see fit.They are often, if not always, independant of the training establishment.

 

[alant]

Hazeltine,

for a start the clue's in the title, 'Day Skipper' ( Dazed Kipper ) is a bit more limited, and won't cover much about lights at night etc.

Both are worth doing though, but as a fair bit of money is involved ( but the courses should be regarded as fun, not an ordeal type exam' ! ) I'd suggest 'aim high and read up beforehand'; most decent sailing schools also offer 'refresher weeks' to get into the groove before the actual course & test.

As you started by asking about Competent Crew courses but are experienced on dinghies ( couldn't agree more with Searush's statement, dinghies are the best training ), I strongly suspect that Day Skipper now will suit you fine, then after a bit you'll be able to go straight to yachtmaster offshore, should you feel like it.

Above all, one thing I've tried to remember; it's supposed to be FUN, not an endurance test !

Good luck,

Andy

"for a start the clue's in the title, 'Day Skipper' ( Dazed Kipper ) is a bit more limited, and won't cover much about lights at night etc."

1) There are night hours included in the DS Practical.

2) Lights are covered in the DS Theory, together with other aspects of collision regs.

"I strongly suspect that Day Skipper now will suit you fine, then after a bit you'll be able to go straight to yachtmaster offshore, should you feel like it."

Why is it, that people who have never been on a RYA Course, or perhaps did a course many years ago, are such experts on what training is best?
Why are you promoting jumping stages, before the OP has even tried any of the courses? The RYA system is there for a reason, primarily to help people get where they want to be, whilst developing the skills & experience they need. Just because someone can sail a dinghy, does not mean they can instantly manage or sail a yacht.

 

[rotrax]

"for a start the clue's in the title, 'Day Skipper' ( Dazed Kipper ) is a bit more limited, and won't cover much about lights at night etc."

1) There are night hours included in the DS Practical.

2) Lights are covered in the DS Theory, together with other aspects of collision regs.

"I strongly suspect that Day Skipper now will suit you fine, then after a bit you'll be able to go straight to yachtmaster offshore, should you feel like it."

Why is it, that people who have never been on a RYA Course, or perhaps did a course many years ago, are such experts on what training is best?
Why are you promoting jumping stages, before the OP has even tried any of the courses? The RYA system is there for a reason, primarily to help people get where they want to be, whilst developing the skills & experience they need. Just because someone can sail a dinghy, does not mean they can instantly manage or sail a yacht.

Bang on- In my view the course progression and spacing are fine as long as practical experience can be gained between courses. This has worked for First Mate and I. I have no desire to go any further than my modest amount of training, not because I dont think it would benifit me but because the extra theory can -and is being-learned from the exellent books on the YM sylabus. As we sail as often as we can and keep the boat in all year the practical, with the help of others, is coming together OK. The critism leveled at me in the past is that I am a little too prudent. Thats fine by me if it keeps us and the boat safe.

 

[Seajet]

"for a start the clue's in the title, 'Day Skipper' ( Dazed Kipper ) is a bit more limited, and won't cover much about lights at night etc."

1) There are night hours included in the DS Practical.

2) Lights are covered in the DS Theory, together with other aspects of collision regs.

"I strongly suspect that Day Skipper now will suit you fine, then after a bit you'll be able to go straight to yachtmaster offshore, should you feel like it."

Why is it, that people who have never been on a RYA Course, or perhaps did a course many years ago, are such experts on what training is best?
Why are you promoting jumping stages, before the OP has even tried any of the courses? The RYA system is there for a reason, primarily to help people get where they want to be, whilst developing the skills & experience they need. Just because someone can sail a dinghy, does not mean they can instantly manage or sail a yacht.

Alant,

probably because I'm experienced and have done RYA yachtmaster offshore !

Dinghy sailing is an excellent grounding, in my experience people who have begun on dinghies know how to handle any size boat pretty much by instinct - this is referring to relatively high performance designs, not 'sitting there' in something like a Wayfarer - while the people I've met who started in cruisers have generally been pretty clueless, even on subjects like sail trim.

As for 'jumping stages' of the RYA courses, feel free to do every increment; I was a chief instructor with a non-RYA dinghy outfit when 15, and only bothered with yachtmaster offshore when someone else was paying, I'd been across the Channel I think 24 times before that without the blessing of the RYA...

 

[alant]

Alant,

probably because I'm experienced and have done RYA yachtmaster offshore !

Dinghy sailing is an excellent grounding, in my experience people who have begun on dinghies know how to handle any size boat pretty much by instinct - this is referring to relatively high performance designs, not 'sitting there' in something like a Wayfarer - while the people I've met who started in cruisers have generally been pretty clueless, even on subjects like sail trim.

As for 'jumping stages' of the RYA courses, feel free to do every increment; I was a chief instructor with a non-RYA dinghy outfit when 15, and only bothered with yachtmaster offshore when someone else was paying, I'd been across the Channel I think 24 times before that without the blessing of the RYA...

I did not say that the RYA system, was the only way to learn to sail a yacht, or is even a perfect system, but at least it is a proven system & I get somewhat cynical about people on these forums, who have never been on these courses, but seem qualified to give an opinion on their worthiness!

Even in your own case, you admittedly haven't done any of the CC or DS courses, but feel able to pontificate on them, without any detailed knowledge of what these entail.

Even you, with all your experience, went on an RYA course before attempting your YM, stating that you had excellent instructors who taught you a great deal. Are you so certain that without that input, you would still have achieved all this in 1992, just on 'experience' alone?

As a dinghy "Chief Instructor", you presumably had 'formalised' stages that your students had to achieve, before moving onward to the next, so why encourage someone wanting to move into yachts, to have a different route to that already in place.

 

[William_H]

Competent Crew and Skipper courses

We do both these courses or very similar here in Oz. There is more theory in Skipper course but on the boat is much the same as comp crew. In that we always have crew helming from the beginning. For safety a crew needs to be able to helm. I would agree that much of the info can be gained as a dinghy sailor and from books but also from joining a racing crew. All skippers will teach you what the know and while it will take many races you will learn.
On the other hand a training course is where you go out sailing with the express intention of teaching. It is great to be able to helm and allowed to learn by making mistakes. This particularly helming to windward.
We used to make a point of using a range of boat types to give students a feel for different boats. YA have now clamped down to under 8metre agile type boats with no aux power.
Anyway back to the OP question. We do not accept people into skipper course if they have not done comp crew unless they can show a lot of experience. Our system then goes on to a seamanship module and a racing module.
Doing the training is an enjoyable if expensive way to learn. Doing it by books and experience on your own or others boats possibly racing is doable but has its problems. good luck olewill

 

[Seajet]

I did not say that the RYA system, was the only way to learn to sail a yacht, or is even a perfect system, but at least it is a proven system & I get somewhat cynical about people on these forums, who have never been on these courses, but seem qualified to give an opinion on their worthiness!

Even in your own case, you admittedly haven't done any of the CC or DS courses, but feel able to pontificate on them, without any detailed knowledge of what these entail.

Even you, with all your experience, went on an RYA course before attempting your YM, stating that you had excellent instructors who taught you a great deal. Are you so certain that without that input, you would still have achieved all this in 1992, just on 'experience' alone?

As a dinghy "Chief Instructor", you presumably had 'formalised' stages that your students had to achieve, before moving onward to the next, so why encourage someone wanting to move into yachts, to have a different route to that already in place.

Alant,

I 'feel able to pontificate' as I was alongside people doing CC and DS while I was doing ym offshore; have you had that experience to 'pontificate' ?!

As for my time as chief instructor on dinghies, we were not bothered with any thoughts of a 'next level' - what's that, Budhist or something ?!!! - We were quite happy to reach a Zen level of being good with what we had, hopefully enjoying ourselves while not killing anyone; seemed to work.

 

[BobPrell]

Just Wonderin' Olewill,
When you say "we" in your post, do you mean your club, Yachting Australia or Oz in general?

I just checked yesterday and found this

Existing Yacht Cruising Scheme qualifications issued by Yachting Australia will remain valid and the National Yacht Cruising Scheme will continue to be offered and fully supported until 31 December 2010.
............

Over the same time period, a new National Keelboat Scheme is being developed with significant industry consultation. This will replace the beginner levels of Yachting Australia's Yacht Cruising Scheme program and will be in place by January 2011.
...................
These Schemes will offer the highest level of professionalism in yacht training ever seen in Australia. .............
Yachting Australia is working in partnership with the RYA because RYA qualifications are recognised and respected around the world and with more than 130 years experience, together we are able to provide a world-class training platform that will be locally administered and operated by Yachting Australia.

Now I always feel a bit worried when a site has obviously not been revised for over 2 years.

What it means and this is stated elsewhere on the site, is that Australia is the same as the RYA for any courses above entry-level.

I also checked New Zealand and they say nothing more than they do RYA courses, no need for interpretation.

The strange thing to me is that I have been looking at this on and off for 15 years. I belonged to a dinghy/trailersailer club at one stage closely connected to the Army. They offered Day skipper courses and some of us did them.

Apart from that, in my sailing at a couple of clubs using offshore type yachts, I never meet anyone who has done courses, or they don't talk about them. They just sail with each other. Anyone who owns a yacht does not do them, maintenance and racing and their other life takes up all their time.

Keen and skillful dinghy sailors get snapped up by yacht owners as their first-tier new crew. They don't need to do any more formal training.

 

[prv]

Dinghy sailing is an excellent grounding, in my experience people who have begun on dinghies know how to handle any size boat pretty much by instinct

You're probably right about the "making the boat go" part, but what about all the other things we do in yachts that dinghy sailors don't normally do?

Pete

 

[shaunksb]

As a dinghy sailor and wanting to get into the big boats would you advise the competent crew course? Does it really teach you that much? Will it teach me all I need to go yachting?

Hazeltine


By this stage of the thread you should be thoroughly confused as to what to do next.


You should start with competent crew - but you can skip that and do dayskipper then go onto yachtmaster, as you wont learn anything you don't already know - apart from the things that are different on a yacht that you dont know about. But you are best learning these yourself by going across the channel 24 times as the RYA course are not as good as meeting someone from a club that you don't know who will teach you things even he didn't know because he hasn't been on a course either.


I hope that clears things up...........


Shaun


Ps If you do decide to go straight to a dayskipper course you should really complete the theory part of it first to get the best out of it.

 

[Seajet]

Shaun,

it takes a sorry excuse for a dinghy sailor not to get the 'feel' of a boat of any size and learn how to handle her; I admit I've met such people, but they're the same type who charge along the wrong side of the road in 4X4's, nothing can be done for them short of typing instructions and pasting it on the front of a bazooka round !

'Making it go' is a tiny fraction of dinghy sailing; it also teaches the whole feel for boats, ballast trim - where to sit as in a true' seat of the pants' feel ! - and sail trim - ' I've stopped / other people are passing, do something about it ! ', and dinghy sailing is NOT the preserve of racing types, I have had huge fun - and probably learned a bit, one should on every trip - cruising dinghies, ranging from going to a picnic at East Head with sunshine, beer and crumpet to going to Cowes from Chichester in my Osprey with a novice crew who happened to be a Marine & expert surfer, that worked well too.

 

[alant]

Hazeltine


By this stage of the thread you should be thoroughly confused as to what to do next.


You should start with competent crew - but you can skip that and do dayskipper then go onto yachtmaster, as you wont learn anything you don't already know - apart from the things that are different on a yacht that you dont know about. But you are best learning these yourself by going across the channel 24 times as the RYA course are not as good as meeting someone from a club that you don't know who will teach you things even he didn't know because he hasn't been on a course either.

Shaun


Ps If you do decide to go straight to a dayskipper course you should really complete the theory part of it first to get the best out of it.

Yet another 'training expert'!

You state as 'advice' -

"You should start with competent crew - but you can skip that and do dayskipper then go onto yachtmaster, as you wont learn anything you don't already know - apart from the things that are different on a yacht that you dont know about.

1) Yes, start with competant crew, but on what do you base your advice "but you can skip that"?


2) "as you wont learn anything you don't already know - apart from the things that are different on a yacht that you dont know about."

What exactly does that mean?

"You won't learn anything you already know" - Brilliant observation!
"apart from the things that are different on a yacht that you don't know about" - an even better observation!

"I hope that clears things up" - How?


"you should really complete the theory part of it first to get the best out of it".
If you do not complete DS Theory, or at least be up to that standard when joining a practical course, you will (1) be taking valuable instructor time away from the students who have got this knowledge, while he has to explain everything - selfish in the least, (2) not be able to practice this knowledge, which is the main purpose of the course, so wasting his own time & money.