rules quiz

In my view Mari-Cha (if that's the biggy) was wrong because she hadn't established an overlap within 2 boat lengths of the mark and is thus constrained to keep clear of the inside, right of way boat. It also looks like she took no action to avoid a collision with the right of way boat. OTOH, Mari-Cha probably had the more expensive lawyers aboard!

How's that? (please bear in mind that I last looked at th eracing rules about 10 years ago)

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One of the Venom crew was on a course at Bisham a few weeks ago (NOT involving colregs or racing rules!).

His version was that Venom bore away in front of Mari Cha on the start line (no 2 boat length rule involved), then tried to stop on the line, expecting Mari Cha to keep clear.

We thought Venom did not have a prayer at the protest meeting.

Keith

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Bearing in mind that this all actually took place just before the start, and the mark you can see is the starboad end of the start line. So rule 18 doesn't apply - you have no rights to water at a start mark.

So, in the first two photos, Venom is windward boat and must keep clear. They then place themselves in front of MC4. According to Rule 12 (ON THE SAME TACK, NOT OVERLAPPED When boats are on the same tack and not overlapped, a boat clear astern shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead. ), MC4 must keep clear of Venom. However, this requirement is tempered by Venom's requirement to give MC4 room and opportunity to keep clear: (15 ACQUIRING RIGHT OF WAY
When a boat acquires right of way, she shall initially give the other boat room to keep clear, unless she acquires right of way because of the other boat's actions.)

Given that MC4 will be barrelling into the line at something over 12 knots, it doesn't really look to me like they did this.

From a rules basis, I think that Venom is in a pretty weak position. You might look at Rule 14: AVOIDING CONTACT A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room
(a) need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room, and (b) shall not be penalized under this rule unless there is contact that causes damage. Hard to see where MC4 could have gone though.

Furthermore, just from a sailing perspective, it's a pretty dumb thing to do. When playing with big boys, it's a far better thing to keep out of their way - they're going to roll you anyway, so why not just find yourself somewhere on the line where you have a reasonably clear run and the prospect of some clean air at least at the start of the beat.


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I'd say venom had almost no rights under any circumstances - furthermore it was stupid and dangerous (primarily to venom herself). She certainly doesnt appear to have given MCIV any opportunity to keep clear - at worst MCIV might have thought venom was cutting it fine to pass ahead, one certainly wouldnt anticipate her rounding up like that.

Bear in mind that simply changing course on MCIV will take many, many seconds - the rudder wont be much more than a trim tab - she will need sheets trimming. Estimates from the scene suggested MCIV was close to 15 knots on a timed run to the line - or she travels one boatlength every 7 seconds - I would say she hadn't a prayer of taking avoiding action.

Thank God no one was killed.

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I think the little boat is reaching in - she has no rights and should be penalised.

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Claymore<font color=purple>
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Pretty much spot on! Jury gave it to MC4 basically because they had no where to go. Situation could have been a bit different if there'd been a hole to leward though.....
Agree with you on trying to find a bit of clean air, always worked for me!

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Interesting you just called a Volvo 60 a little boat! Hope I get to sail something that little one day!

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Size is relative as I've been explaining to Dear Heart these past 31 years!

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Claymore<font color=purple>
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In the first picture there appears to be an overlap, therefore the small boat must stay clear. In the next two pictures it is not quite cleat but it would appear that the overlap had been broken. Remember that an overlap exists if a line through your transom perpendicular to the centreline of your boat passes through the other boat, it is therefore possible to break an overlap just by heading up slightly. The next pictures appear to show the larger boat hitting the smaller boat's transom. If you hit a boat's transon you must have been clear astern, a boat clear astern shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead. I would throw out the big boat.
A boat going for the line who realises that she is going to be early is entitled to slow, luff her sails etc. A boat behind has to take avoiding action.

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Yes, but you have to give the boat behind room to keep clear. If she's 140ft long, and tonking in at 15kts, she's going to need a hell of a lot of room to keep clear.

If you step onto a pedestrian crossing right in front of a speeding juggernaught, you might be in the right but it's still a silly thing to do.

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Eviscerate the race officer

Apropos speeding juggernaut theory, who else thinks the race committee should be hung, drawn and quartered for starting a race with such a mix of boats speeds on a short line with a very obvious bias. Asking for trouble and they got it.

PS, Also think the driver of MC is a bit of a prat for sailing a not very manouevarable boat at hi-speed in such crowded conditions.

PPS Driver of Venom was an even bigger prat for thinking MC wouild alter alter for him.

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Re: Eviscerate the race officer

Particularly when any claim that Venom might have is at the best tenuous....

In reality both Venom and MCIV are likely to properly share the same start - on our side of the pond they would both be IRC 0 (or super Zero if they had to divide). The line doesnt look that short - pretty much everyone who was on time looks to have space, bias, well with tradewinds there shouldnt be any such thing!

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Re: Eviscerate the race officer

Well, we can't see the other end of the line, so we don't actually know how long it is.

Re the size of the class - that's the whole of Racing Big Boat 1 you can see - the whole class was 8 boats. Also, the rating band isn't actually huge - from Venom (slow boat) at 1.233 to MC4 as the outlier at 1.625. - MC is 30% faster than the slow boat. The Z86s are 1.477. Now, I suppose they could have taken MC4, Pyewacket and Morning Glory into an "Ultra, Super 0", but a class with only three boats?

If you look at the rating band for the class below, it ranges from 1.103 to 1.393- a 25% increase in speed between slow and fast.

Looks to me as though MC4 has a really nice start lined up - until Venom gets an attack of the stupids and put themselves somewhere they should _really_ know better.

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Re: Big boat big bang

Same thing happened in a hundred dinghy fleets last weekend but who cares.

If your driving a race yacht at the start of a race your either very good or very rich ie you own it. No matter how big the boat is your not going to be pussy footing around.

You want the favoured end and your wanting to hit the line on the gun. Inputs are coming in from everywhere but the only ones you fixated on are the countdown and the foredeck mans signals. If you time it right you are going to be in heavy traffic and it normally only goes wrong if someone stops thinking.

You can't win if you don't finish is a good maxim but maybe it should be you cant win if you don't start.

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