Rules of the road.....

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Matata

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Sailing along one night with engine on so effectively I'm a power driven vessel. Steaming lights and deck navigation lights on. On my port side 20 mins away is a trawler green over white with his starboard light showing. He's on a constant bearing for the next ten minutes. under the rules we are both power driven vessels but I have to give way to a fishing vessel.He is the stand on vessel.Therefore I have to manoeuvre out of his way. If I turn to starboard we will both run a parallel course, which is good in that we avoid a collision but bad for me as we could go along for many miles, or do I turn to port and risk interfering with his fishing . Answers on a post card please. Ta NIK
 
Slow down?

If you can't bear to do that, how about turning to port and crossing his stern. The sort of clearance I'd want to leave any vessel at night is ample for clearing trawl gear - it doesn't stream out near the surface all that far behind them. In fact that's how I remember the difference between green over white and red over white - trawlers are green because they're easier because you know where the warps are and they don't take up much surface space. Fishing with other gear could be anything and anywhere, hence red.

(Note the colregs advise not turning to port, but I *think* that's only if you're stand-on having to take action. Could be wrong...)

Pete
 
Without my copy of the regs to hand, I think you are only barred from turning to port where risk of collision is present. I would have made a conspicuous turn to go astern at the earliest opportunity when it was clear that this was necessary. Whatever you do, the odds are that the fishing boat will do something unpredictable and inconvenient.
 
Matata said:
Sailing along one night with engine on so effectively I'm a power driven vessel. Steaming lights and deck navigation lights on. On my port side 20 mins away is a trawler green over white with his starboard light showing. He's on a constant bearing for the next ten minutes. under the rules we are both power driven vessels but I have to give way to a fishing vessel.He is the stand on vessel.Therefore I have to manoeuvre out of his way. If I turn to starboard we will both run a parallel course, which is good in that we avoid a collision but bad for me as we could go along for many miles, or do I turn to port and risk interfering with his fishing . Answers on a post card please. Ta NIK
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I would turn to starboard 2700 to pass behind
 
This is a well rehearsed query where one has to use common sense.

Slowing down is the easiest solution. However, a turn to port (a big turn so that you now show your starboard green light to the trawler and are on reciprocal courses) will be unambiguous and ensure your closing distance does not decrease. The Colregs only say that a turn to port should be avoided where possible - this is a scenario where common sense says do so.
 
johnalison said:
Without my copy of the regs to hand, I think you are only barred from turning to port where risk of collision is present. I would have made a conspicuous turn to go astern at the earliest opportunity when it was clear that this was necessary. Whatever you do, the odds are that the fishing boat will do something unpredictable and inconvenient.
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Firstly there are VERY VERY few absolute bars in the rules, this one without the rules to hand just states shall keep out of the way of... So you can go to port you can slow down you can go to starboard...

Secondly I agree its a fishing boat, they do not always do as you expect. Put the kettle on if he has not altered when hes a bit close then decide :)
 
prv said:
(Note the colregs advise not turning to port, but I *think* that's only if you're stand-on having to take action. Could be wrong...)
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Just checked and I was (mostly) right. The only circumstances under which turns to port are discouraged are if you are the stand-on vessel but are having to manoeuvre because the give-way vessel is not, or if you detect the other by radar alone in conditions of poor visibility. Neither apply here.

Pete
 
Well under the cicumstances I would STOP ! Let him pass and then carry on. We have done this on night sails as the fishing boats have a tendancy to suddenly veer off in the direction that you turned to.

Peter
 
Matata said:
I have to give way to a fishing vessel. He is the stand on vessel.
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Strictly, you only have to give way to a vessel actively "engaged in fishing", and only certain types of fishing, at that (those which restrict ability to manoeuvre). UK fishing boats are wont to show lights/shapes regardless of their actual status. But that said, you can only defer to the lights shown.
 
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Lights are shown because visibility is reduced, so you can't be clear whether they are actively engaged or not. Need to assume therefore that they are.

Or this could be a situation where a quick call by VHF (or MMSI if you have AIS) would be useful? Although, as a fishing vessel, I know you may not get an answer?!
 
gasdave said:
Lights are shown because visibility is reduced, so you can't be clear whether they are actively engaged or not. Need to assume therefore that they are.

Or this could be a situation where a quick call by VHF (or MMSI if you have AIS) would be useful? Although, as a fishing vessel, I know you may not get an answer?!
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gasdave,

you go first, I'd love to hear " fishing boat at X position, this is yacht Y, are you actually fishing or just too lazy to change your lights and day signals ? " :D
 
Rossynant,

why 'should' the OP be 'afraid or in doubt', as he's observing lights from a distance in the scenario.

'The problem' with a 360 degree turn is that if one does that every time one sees another vessel from a sailing boat, it will be a very long passage !

It might also confuse the hell out of the fishing boat or whoever is watching; far better to make an obvious turn behind the stern - and possible nets - then continue on ones' way.
 
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Rossynant said:
1. And he is observing the scenario leads to danger.
2. I thought he was on engine? :confused:
3. Would't say that turning your back on somebody will get him confused as for your intentions or danger of collision...

I may be wrong, with old age, but there was something in rules about making turn to starboard.
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OK Rossynant,

you do it your way, I'll stick to mine; I've been across the Channel and night sailed doing that and coastal sailing quite a lot, but your way sounds more fun if you have a video camera rolling and a recorder on for the VHF messages...:)
 
With fishing boats there's a realistic question whose answer you MUST understand,
.

What course is that fishing boat on?
A collisionn course. If not now, he will be in five minutes time.

And the fact that he with almost everyone else should not change heading to a collision course is irrelevant to the answer.
 
Rossynant said:
1. And he is observing the scenario leads to danger.
2. I thought he was on engine? :confused:
3. Would't say that turning your back on somebody will get him confused as for your intentions or danger of collision...

I may be wrong, with old age, but there was something in rules about making turn to starboard.
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I think you will find that the times the direction of course alteration are dictated are in a head to head situation where both vessels should alter course to starboard, in order to pass port to port and in poor visibilty (Rule19) when the risk of collision has been determined by radar alone. In that situation an alteration of course to port, for a vessel forward of the beam, should be avoided, except when overtaking. Also an alteration of course towards a vessel abeam or abaft the beam should be avoided.

COLREGS http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/msn_1781-2.pdf
 
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VicS said:
I think you will find that the times the direction of course alteration are dictated are in a head to head situation where both vessels should alter course to starboard, in order to pass port to port and in poor visibilty (Rule19) when the risk of collision has been determined by radar alone. In that situation an alteration of course to port, for a vessel forward of the beam, should be avoided, except when overtaking. Also an alteration of course towards a vessel abeam or abaft the beam should be avoided.

COLREGS http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/msn_1781-2.pdf
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VicS,

with respect there's something wrong there; the standard ColRegs move when a right of way vessel is going left to right in front is to alter course to port and go behind.

In the case of the OP's scenario it's the direction and purpose of the fishing boat which is the question, and the answer to all of it is to simply go behind leaving a healthy margin for nets.

This sort of thing crops up repeatedly when crossing the Channel, with fishing boats or a rather simpler decision with big ships in the shipping lanes, ie don't try to be a smartarse, keep well out of the way and go like hell across in any decent safe gap inbetween ships !
 
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Rossynant said:
:D
I do remember, no probs. Actually, although only the 'stand on' vessel is forbidden from turning to port, there is a guidance widely accepted that "when in doubt" - turn right. There was a study, "Collision Prevention", over 50 years ago, guess from this time that approach is suggested.
Anyway, so I've been was taught.
Original question here was: So this is answer ;)
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Rossynant,

no-one is ' forbidden ' from any move if it will avoid a collision !

The trick is to make ones' intentions clear to the other vessel, primarily by moves and showing nav' lights in this case then if necessary calling on VHF, but A, have a position to quote, B, don't expect a sensible reply from fishing boats, if they are listening at all they might teach you a few new naughty words then contiue at whatever they are doing... :rolleyes:
 
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Seajet said:
VicS,

with respect there's something wrong there; the standard ColRegs move when a right of way vessel is going left to right in front is to alter course to port and go behind.

In the case of the OP's scenario it's the direction and purpose of the fishing boat which is the question, and the answer to all of it is to simply go behind leaving a healthy margin for nets.

This sort of thing crops up repeatedly when crossing the Channel, with fishing boats or a rather simpler decision with big ships in the shipping lanes, ie don't try to be a smartarse, keep well out of the way and go like hell across in any decent safe gap inbetween ships !
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Well yes in a crossing situation in good vis if possible the "give way" vessel should avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel. That will normally mean an alteration of course to port

The OP has several options although any change in speed or course for a short time will remove the collision risk if the other maintains course and speed.

Ships with no lights and no one on the bridge at night are the scariest but I think we have only ever met one... fortunately while I was off watch
 
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