Rule 17 -- Vid of a close encounter....

[S04]

.......... We weren’t in the TSS so technically we’re stand on vessel. ...........................

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. You weren't in the TSS therefore you were the stand-on vessel? It's quite likely I'm being rather obtuse but not deliberately.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. You weren't in the TSS therefore you were the stand-on vessel? It's quite likely I'm being rather obtuse but not deliberately.

Rule changes to ‘shall not impede’ if you’re crossing a TSS. Outside the TSS crossing rule applies (or power sail rule) etc.

 

[S04]

Rule changes to ‘shall not impede’ if you’re crossing a TSS. Outside the TSS crossing rule applies (or power sail rule) etc.

Yes I understand that. I'll assume the original assumption of my idiocy was correct! Thank you.

 

[lustyd]

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. You weren't in the TSS therefore you were the stand-on vessel? It's quite likely I'm being rather obtuse but not deliberately.

If you look at the line from the Lizard to Scillies it remains south of the TSS. The TSS itself has a triangle end so the inshore northbound lane is shorter than the southbound outer lane. We were heading west below it so not in the TSS but if we’d turned north we would have ended up inside it reasonably quickly (in sailing terms). The biggun was only doing 8 or so knots which made it harder for us.
Whether under sail or motor we would be stand on outside the TSS (them heading south) but in the TSS we’d have been crossing side to side hence give way.

Either way, a quick convivial conversation and all was well in the world.

 

[S04]

If you look at the line from the Lizard to Scillies it remains south of the TSS. The TSS itself has a triangle end so the inshore northbound lane is shorter than the southbound outer lane. We were heading west below it so not in the TSS but if we’d turned north we would have ended up inside it reasonably quickly (in sailing terms). The biggun was only doing 8 or so knots which made it harder for us.
Whether under sail or motor we would be stand on outside the TSS (them heading south) but in the TSS we’d have been crossing side to side hence give way.

Either way, a quick convivial conversation and all was well in the world.

Thank you for clarifying, I understand the situation now.

 

[Mark-1]

The Solent isn’t open waters…!

If you're saying the Solent is a "Narrow Channel" for the purposes of Rule 9 you're definitely wrong. You can't know because Narrow Channel isn't defined and even Cockroft don't offer a definition, in fact they elaborate on the lack of a definition.

Of course, CS is also wrong for saying it isn't.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If you're saying the Solent is a "Narrow Channel" for the purposes of Rule 9 you're definitely wrong. You can't know because Narrow Channel isn't defined and even Cockroft don't offer a definition, in fact they elaborate on the lack of a definition.

Of course, CS is also wrong for saying it isn't.

I absolutely agree he didn’t have complete freedom of navigation. But asserting your rights by charging through a fleet of yachts at 3 times their speed isn’t the way to win friends and influence people.

 

[Mark-1]

I absolutely agree he didn’t have complete freedom of navigation. But asserting your rights by charging through a fleet of yachts at 3 times their speed isn’t the way to win friends and influence people.

That wasn't the aspect I was referring to.

 

[zoidberg]

I s'pose that's what's called a 'Crash Tack'....

 

[Chiara’s slave]

That wasn't the aspect I was referring to.

I’m not really sensing anything but ‘is it or isn’t it a narrow channel’. And if his navigation is indeed that tightly restricted, should he be proceeding at full speed? If ypu can’t turn, then give others the time and opportunity to stay clear. There’s enough space in fact for a considerable variation of course, so predicting which part of this narrow channel he’s going to occupy (it’s a curved narrow channel) is quite hard.

 

[creeks]

My recent experience, though a one off, was not like that. The ship just blasted up the western solent at 13-15kn sounding 5 hoots every so often. Generally though, commercial shipping is easy to predict and quite gentlemanly.

I'm a great fan of the Waverley but I once saw her charge through a racing fleet which was just emerging from Cowes pre-race. She was travelling at her usual speed of 14-15 knots and gave five loud blasts on her siren for good measure. It's something that's always puzzled me as I could see no reason at all why she couldn't alter course to clearer water of which there was plenty. Her course to avoid them would have taken her into deeper water so there were no depth constraints to consider. I found it astonishing and though it was a few years ago I've never forgotten the incident.

 

[Stemar]

I'm a great fan of the Waverley but I once saw her charge through a racing fleet which was just emerging from Cowes pre-race. She was travelling at her usual speed of 14-15 knots and gave five loud blasts on her siren for good measure. It's something that's always puzzled me as I could see no reason at all why she couldn't alter course to clearer water of which there was plenty. Her course to avoid them would have taken her into deeper water so there were no depth constraints to consider. I found it astonishing and though it was a few years ago I've never forgotten the incident.

Like you, I'd be reluctant to drop the Waverly in it, but I would make a CHIRP report for something like that. If she was in the right, you'd find out why, and if not, she'd be told she was wrong with, it is to be hoed, an improvement for safety all round.

 

[AMOREST]

Like you, I'd be reluctant to drop the Waverly in it, but I would make a CHIRP report for something like that. If she was in the right, you'd find out why, and if not, she'd be told she was wrong with, it is to be hoed, an improvement for safety all round.

Remember however that despite her elegance - she has a rudder the size of a cornflake. So …

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Remember however that despite her elegance - she has a rudder the size of a cornflake. So …

While the rudder size is assumed to be small, it is around the same size as vessels of her age and she is manoeuvrable. The excuse of a small rudder never stands up to scrutiny when she hits stuff. The Gantocks, Sanda and recent Brodick incident were all initially blamed by the masses on her presumed small rudder, but the incident investigations don't even mention the rudder size.

 

[AMOREST]

While the rudder size is assumed to be small, it is around the same size as vessels of her age and she is manoeuvrable. The excuse of a small rudder never stands up to scrutiny when she hits stuff. The Gantocks, Sanda and recent Brodick incident were all initially blamed by the masses on her presumed small rudder, but the incident investigations don't even mention the rudder size.

Ah but plenty of mention of her ‘bespoke handling characteristics’.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Ah but plenty of mention of her ‘bespoke handling characteristics’.

Every boat has it’s own foibles in that respect. Ours certainly has, nothing you wouldn’t expect though. Same with a long keeler, you know damned well they’re going to be soggy and hard to light in reverse. Surely with her paddles so far apart there must be some form of remedial action that can be taken. Unless it’s a brand new skipper each incident, they must learn how she handles.

 

[Mark-1]

While the rudder size is assumed to be small, it is around the same size as vessels of her age and she is manoeuvrable. The excuse of a small rudder never stands up to scrutiny when she hits stuff. The Gantocks, Sanda and recent Brodick incident were all initially blamed by the masses on her presumed small rudder, but the incident investigations don't even mention the rudder size.

I'm a massive fan on the Waverley but I was seaching the MAIB for paddle sports incidents with the search term 'paddle' and the resultant returns suggest she has quite a collection of MAIB reports.

I once saw her rescue a windsurfer south of the IOW and she always makes me smile so I'm prepared to forgive her anything.

 

[creeks]

It was because it was the Waverley that I was so astonished. Not the sort of unfriendly behaviour you would expect from her.

 

[Mark-1]

It was because it was the Waverley that I was so astonished. Not the sort of unfriendly behaviour you would expect from her.

There may well be something we're not aware of. Mechanical, passengers paid for a view of Cowes, anticipated shipping movement, some obscure operating procedure. It's a weird thing to do for absolutely no reason, I wouldn't be assuming malice.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I'm a massive fan on the Waverley but I was seaching the MAIB for paddle sports incidents with the search term 'paddle' and the resultant returns suggest she has quite a collection of MAIB reports.

I once saw her rescue a windsurfer south of the IOW and she always makes me smile so I'm prepared to forgive her anything.

For a long while she was a very worn vessel and stuff kept failing on her. Indeed after the Gantocks she was to be scrapped as she had sunk along side the coal pier at Dunoon. A massive crowd funding campaign was started by the press and she was saved, and repaired. Much later, lottery winners, contributed to a significant refit, and again her usable life has been extended. The incident reports have a good mix of machinery failure and human error or ignorance compounding that failure. She deserves to be operated to the highest standards, a remarkable vessel and fascinating watching her paddle along.

I am used to ultra modern vessels, where everything is controlled and operated from the bridge with instant response and precision, with multiple layers of backup. I can't imagine the hysteresis and what it's like giving a command from the bridge and then engineers winding valve wheels, pulling levers and diverting steam to control rotary motion on equipment that is 78 years old.

Long may she sail.