Ruggerini MM191 - advice please.

[BotleyBuoy]

Does anyone have any experience of running a Ruggerini MM191? The spares dept. at Bryco told me that most parts are unobtainable and that is anything goes wrong, eg water pump, then the engine is scrap. The guy who’s selling the boat thinks that’s pessimistic and says he hasn’t had any problems sourcing parts.

Does anyone on here have any first hand experience? Is it worth buying a boat with one of these engines?

Thanks in advance.

 

[steadyeddy]

Some generator companies fit these engines to their gen sets try some service departments of welding repairs shops they should be able to help

 

[chrishscorp]

Ruggerini, Thanks, i had nearly forgotten about that :ambivalence:

We had a very large site mixer powered with a ruggerini diesel engine, one day it just stopped mid job, i handed it to an engineer who could not get it to work no matter what he tried, it went for scrap......

 

[coopec]

Are you aware of this?
"Ruggerini Engines are now part of the Kohler Diesel engines family. The Ruggerini engine range now crosses over to incorporate the Kohler Diesel air cooled engine and Kohler Diesel water cooled engine range. Please refer to the Kohler Diesel page for more information on Kohler Diesel engines. All Ruggerini parts are fully interchangeable with Kohler Diesel. ..."

If the Original Equipment Manufactured part failed why not use an aftermarket part? "Hard to find Aftermarket Water Pumps? Just use our search engine and you'll get the right part for the right price. Grab a bargain at AutoPartsWarehouse today!"

A lot of mechanics would consider a motor scrap because they couldn't get spare parts but if you are resourceful you can do anything. I was given a single cylinder Mitsubishi diesel engine which I wanted to recondition but I couldn't get parts. I used Onan big end bearings (but the con-rod had to be machined) , Massey Ferguson wet cylinder liner and 1948 Morris (?) piston rings.

Clive Cooper

 

[BotleyBuoy]

Are you aware of this?
"Ruggerini Engines are now part of the Kohler Diesel engines family. ....

Thanks for that. However I've just typed "Ruggerini water pump" into the AutoPartsWarehouse search engine and got this response "We did not find any compatible products under water pump Ruggerini".

Finding parts for an old 1.5 BMC would easy on the APW site by searching under MGB or Riley 1.5 or one of the other myriad vehicles the 'B' series engine was used in but I get the impression it won't be quite so easy with an obsolete Ruggerini lump.

If anyone knows different please let me know. This could be the main sticking point on whether or not to take things further with this particular boat.

 

[coopec]

I agree with you 100% about spares for BMC motors. There are a lot of water pumps that are not integral with the motor - they have an inlet and outlet so the pulley just has to be mounted inline with the belt and then plumbed up. I don't know the Ruggerini motor but you'd possibly have to put a plate over where the old one was mounted.

View attachment 70058

Just looking at a Ruggerini MM150 and that looks as though the pump is gear driven? (not belt ?)

Of course it gets more complicated if the cylinder bore (or piston) is stuffed.....

 

[BotleyBuoy]

I may be confusing the issue here. When I said "water pump" I meant the engine coolant circulation pump which is usually bolted to the block, not the impeller for the raw water to the heat exchanger. If that makes sense.

 

[coopec]

No, water coolant pump. (Don't let me sway you one way or another)

Here is a Mini Cooper pump - belt driven all external.

View attachment 70061

 

[BotleyBuoy]

The Mini uses an 'A' series engine. The BMC lump commonly found in marine usage is the 'B' series engine. Here's a diagram...



As you can see, in this design the coolant circulation pump (water pump) is bolted to the block. The rotor which circulates the coolant is part of the water pump but the chamber in which the rotor sits is cast into the block. Obviously there is no fan on the marine version.

So if the water pump on your boat engine fails you just pop into your local motor factors and buy a new pump for an MGA/MGB over the counter and at a sensible price.

 

[coopec]

T

So if the water pump on your boat engine fails you just pop into your local motor factors and buy a new pump for an MGA/MGB over the counter and at a sensible price.

You would bolt a plate over where the broken pump was attached and that would have an outlet pipe the same diameter as the inlet on the Mini Cooper water pump. You would use some radiator hose to do the plumbing
View attachment 70064

(They would need to be a fairly similar capacity)

 

[BotleyBuoy]

Good idea, but only worth the hassle if you couldn't easily source the correct part. Possibly a solution for an obsolete Ruggerini though?

 

[coopec]

Now I'm confused.

I am assuming the water pump on the Ruggerini is stuffed so you can use a Mini Cooper water pump in it's place but if you do that you have to manufacture an inlet for it which is the plate and pipe bolted over where the original water pump was.

Clive

 

[coopec]

Now if we are still trying to source the correct part.

"Ruggerini Engines are now part of the Kohler Diesel engines family. The Ruggerini engine range now crosses over to incorporate the Kohler Diesel air cooled engine and Kohler Diesel water cooled engine range. Please refer to the Kohler Diesel page for more information on Kohler Diesel engines. All Ruggerini parts are fully interchangeable with Kohler Diesel. ..."

You'd have to go to Kohler Diesel and make inquiries. Keep in mind the person you are dealing with may have no real understanding of what you are doing (He/she may go by the book and not have a trade). Look for a Ruggerini part but it may now be listed as a Kohler part (look for both)

ALTERNATIVELY

"Hard to find Aftermarket Water Pumps? Just use our search engine and you'll get the right part for the right price. Grab a bargain at AutoPartsWarehouse today!"

A Kohler part may be identical to a Ruggerini part so do a search on Kohler Part No as well as well.

When I wanted a wet cylinder sleave I did a search for a sleave the same size (diameter/length) as my worn out one. Luckily when the Mitsubishi Engineers were developing their single cylinder 8 HP diesel they must have used a Massey Ferguson sleave as it was identical. Maybe I was just lucky?


Geez it gets complicated!

GOOGLE SEARCH ON "kohler Ruggerini diesel parts"

Ruggerini Engines - Fred Hopkins
https://www.fredhopkinswa.com.au › ... › Engines › Ruggerini › Ruggerini Engines

Ruggerini engines, made in the same factory as Lombardini engines in Italy are no longer being produced. New engines are now coming through branded as Kohler Diesel engines. Please see the Kohler diesel engine page for information on new engines. All Ruggerini parts are still available through Fred Hopkins WA.

AND

Lombardini, Marine, Kohler, Ruggerini Engines and parts.
https://www.deltaservicedieselengines.com/en/

Lombardini, Marine, Kohler e Ruggerini concessionaire for the sale of engines and parts. Wide range of inboard, saildrive, agricultural and industrial products.
Ruggerini spare parts < Spare parts | Ippoliti Ricambi
ippolitiricambi.com › Get a free quote › Request a manual

AND

Ruggerini spare parts. Ruggerini, now part of the Kohler-Lombardini group, has been from over 80 years a reference point in the diesel engine market. The group's dedication to continuous innovation and research have led all Ruggerini engines to have a high quality and to show excellent performance in every aspect.


I will leave it to you to do further searches. Good luck!!!

Clive

 

[BotleyBuoy]

I'm told the engine in the boat I'm going to look at is fine. I just used "water pump" as an example of a component which might be difficult to find for an obsolete engine.

 

[coopec]

Yes I understand that.

I wonder what you would do if something happened to the injector pump? Are they a proprietary line like Lucas, CAV.? I suppose they are for the same reason that car manufacturers used to use Zenith, SU, Solex, Weber carburettors.

What else could go wrong? Oil pump, piston rings, 'big end' bearings. If the motor is in reasonable condition now how many hours could you expect before a breakdown?
What sort of breakdown would be fatal?

Clive
\

 

[BotleyBuoy]

.....I wonder what you would do if something happened to the injector pump? ......What else could go wrong? Oil pump, piston rings, 'big end' bearings.....What sort of breakdown would be fatal? Clive\

Agreed, hence the original question.

 

[BotleyBuoy]

Another boat I'm planning on viewing has a Volvo MD2B so I thought I'd have a look at availability and prices on parts for this engine. I looked here https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/e-volvo-penta-645-MD2B.aspx and got an almighty shock. Prices in Euros for:-

Pistons (pair) = 596
Tappets (x4) = 118
Push rods (x4) = 86
Head gaskets (x2) = 30
Injectors (x2) = 576
Exhaust valves (x2) = 167

You get the picture. Are these prices really the going rate for those components?

 

[Frankklose]

The injectors are made by Bosch also the two diesel pumps for each cylinder. The week point is the alternator. It's a a AC alternator with magnets and the voltage is regulated by cutting parts of the phase like a dimmer. The regulator is a Spanish type like in a motor cycle. Ruggerini is the most build European industrial diesel engine. It's used in concrete mixers ,generators, tractors etc. Lamburdini brought Ruggerini. Parts are easier to come by as from VP. In addition Ruggerini build far more diesel engines as VP. The starter is also made by Bosch. Parts delivery used to be 24 hours....and at a much lower price as VP or Yanmar. These engines are industrial engines. The Mm190 runs very badly at 1000 rpm, but at 1500 it runs like a sewing machine.

 

[BotleyBuoy]

Thanks Framk.
I've sent you a PM

 

[coopec]

You may be interested in this site? (Apparently they are "clearance" prices)

https://www.keypart.com/volvo-penta/diesel-engine/md2b/19701975

Clive