Royal Greenwich Tall Ships Festival 2014

Javelin

Javelin

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www.southwoldboatyard.co.uk
My daughter is sailing on one of the tall ships from Falmouth to Royal Greenwich next week.

I was considering sailing down from Southwold and up the Thames to see her and the ships arrive and pick her up and sail back.

I wonder if this idea has any credence or will it be impossible to find a berth at South Dock or Limehouse or will it just be too stuffed for yachting traffic as well as the big stuff?
 
Sailing up the Thames on a tall ship is an experience your daughter will never forget. I sailed on the "Sir Winston Churchill" many years ago from East India Dock over to Zeebrugge and beyond in the days before "sat-nav", GPS!!

Maybe your best view of the tall ships would be to pick up a mooring at Gravesend, where the river in quite narrow, or Earith. If you cannot get into South Dock or Limehouse perhaps consider Gallions Point Marina and travel by land to wherever the tall ships are moored.

I left Shotley a couple of hours before low water and sailed/motored to Gravesend on a tide in my slow Macwester 30, I think it was a 12 hour passage.

If the weather is reasonable I would just do it. You have to seize opportunities like this whenever you can, or life goes by and you can end up doing nothing.
 
Javelin said:
thought I'd buy "Crossing the Thames estuary" but its out of stock, typical!

Any other publications that folk think would be useful ?
Click to expand...

East Coast Pilot would be more useful. Excellent info for coming into and up the Thames. I understand that St Kats is open to visitor enquiries. Call Limehouse and talk to Lizzie or Robyn and explain - I'm sure they will do their best to accomodate you. Greenwich also has visitor moorings...
 
East Coast Rivers by Janet Harbour, Wiley Nautical is also good.

Not involved with it; just a user who had it given to him at Christmas.
 
The headlines are saying that the festival will be the biggest tall ship event in London for 25 years so on that basis it looks like fun but at the same time places to stop maybe at a premium.
Anyone else thinking of going ?

Tried a number of places to try and buy CTTE and all out of stock :(
 
Passage Planning

Javelin said:
Tried a number of places to try and buy CTTE and all out of stock :(
Click to expand...
:)

On the basis that you will be the first customer for the second edition, can I work up a passage plan for you?

If so, a few questions:

Earliest on the tide you can leave Southwold?
When do you need to get to your destination of the Thames?
Draught?
Average boat speed for planning purposes?
Would you intend to overnight on route/Limit on duration per day?
Coast hugger (Wallet/West Swin) or to boldly go down the middle (Barrow Deep) or chose according to the results?

For finding your way up the Thames, East Coast Pilot is a worthwhile investment. (in contrast to the usual forum disclaimer of independence, I know all three authors, actually like them!, even trust them!! and might even get a grudging 'thank you' for the recommendation. I also have the same publisher with whom I need to ingratiate myself - so consider this recommendation to be the model of bias) :D:D:D
 
At neaps I can get into Southwold at 2 hours after low water.
Leaving I wouldn't leave it later than 3 hours before low water.
We draw 6'4".
5.5 knts is my usual base nav speed but in practice its usually closer to 6 knts.
I prefer not to push my luck too much with my draft.

We have a dog so need to get a pontoon berth each night as he just won't go to the loo on board.
I've never cruised south of Burnham so it'll be all new to us.

I aim to arrive on Saturday the 6th Sept.
My vague plan so far is
Wed 03 Sept - 08:00 leave Southwold > Harwich
Thurs 04 - 11:00 (ish) Harwich > Burnham
Fri 05 - Burnham > Gillingham
Sat 06 - Gillingham to SouthDock or similar

For the record on Monday 8th I plan to go to Oostende, non-stop, with a more "robust" crew as swmbo, girls and dog will get the train back home leaving us boys to pop across the pond.
 
I think you are well practiced Southwold to Harwich so I have ignored that segment of the passage.

Harwich to Burnham. My tables work between from Landfalls at the mouth/entrances to the Rivers. Harwich 'Landfall' is just outside the Cliff Foot PHB so assuming on your timing that you depart from there at your chosen 11am ish start BST (which is approx Sheerness +3hrs), you will plug a bit of tide going via the Spitway would get to the Crouch Landfall around Sheerness -5.15 based on 5.5kts (-5.29 at 6kts, -4.53 at 5kts). That's around 1530hrs (I've interpolated for the 30 min difference between successive high waters) at the Crouch Landfall which is in the Whitaker channel between the pairs of the Nos 5/6 and 7/8. To make Burnham Yacht Harbour you have another 9.80nm approx - say an hour and a half with the favourable tide, ETA around 1700hrs. Landfall to Landfall is 19.92nm. Route= Cliff Foot, clear of the Naze, Wallet, Spitway, Swallowtail, Outer Crouch etc. Disadvantage= gets you to the Spitway at low water. Indeed at 6kts, you get to the Spitway exactly on local low water. Expect only 0.9m height of tide (fortunately it's neaps) and assume a controlling depth at the Spitway of 1.5m and that's a close call on a draught of 1.93m! Leaving earlier just gives you stronger tides to fight up the Wallet - people have survived it but if it's a SW wind as well - well, it doesn't need any comment. You could of course leave later but probably leaving the Medusa to starboard, going round the top of the Gunfleet Sand, Gunfleet Spit to starboard and down the East Swin into the Whitaker Channel makes more sense. Longer I am afraid - 26.5nm against the 19.92 of the Wallet route but no depth issues. I don't do tables for that route but I guess it is going to take you an hour longer, still giving you plenty of helpful tide up the Crouch.

Or

You could go Harwich to Medway. The quickest route is via the Spitway (36.22nm) but assuming the same start time will suffer the same depth issues at the Spitway. Via the Barrow Deep is 41.08nm. Depart at around 11am from Cliff Foot, I estimate a passage time of 6hrs 15 minutes at 6kts or 7hrs at 5hrs. Arrival time around -1.49 Sheerness at 5kts or around 1830hrs interpolating for the 30 minutes lag between successive HWs. Medway Landfall is by the Approach Channel before the SS Richard Montgomery wreck and you have 8.13nm to go to the Gillingham Marina. Assuming about an hour and a half to cover this territory, you arrive at around 2000 shortly before HW. Lock at the Marina is available according to East Coast Pilot until 2200hrs.

I guess that might be straining the dog's patience?

Burnham to Medway You want to be at the Whitaker Spit at around LW Sheerness which on 5th September is 1539BST. Working back, I am estimating departure from the Yacht Harbour around Sheerness +3.45 (1300hrs BST) assuming 5.5Kts. the Landfall to Landfall distance is 23.16nm. Leave the Crouch by the Whitaker Channel, go to the Inner Whitaker. Your next mark is the South Whitaker SHB sort of SSE but you will need to heed your draught and scribe an arc round the top of the Spit to get there. Thereafter, you are into the West Swin with the flood building with you. The buoyage is pretty obvious. ETA at 6kts at the Medway landfall would be Sheerness -3.16 (3hrs on passage between landfalls), at 5kts it would be -2.47 (3hrs 43 mins). Interpolating for 5.5kts suggests arrival at about -2.55. Now there is a surprising 45min difference in successive high waters on that day so that suggests we ought to work on a worst case of about -2.30 or 1930hrs BST. Still gives you good tide up to Gillingham and an ETA there of 2100hrs.

Medway to Thames I don't do tables for this but you have 41.74nm to go from Sea Reach No 1 to Limehouse or 40.69nm to South Dock. That suggests you want to be taking the ebb out of the Medway (obviously) using the small craft recommended route of the Grain Hard SHB to the No11 SHB, cutting across the Sheerness Middle Sand into the Nore Swatchway. LW Sheerness on the 6th is 0422BST or 1701BST so its going to be a v. early morning or a late evening. If you are going to lock in only the morning low water suits.

Hope this helps. Ask any questions and anyone chip in/criticise etc. I make no claim to experience of the Thames and the Estuary is a big place. There are always alternatives.
 
I'd forget the stop in Burnham, Harwich to the Medway easy in one tide. The time you've got yourself up the Crouch you'd be most of the way down the Maplin sands and still an hour or two off high water.

Also the Burnham to Medway trip feels like you're going the wrong way for two hours then retracing your steps once round the Whittaker buoy.

You'll go through the Swin Spitway on a rising tide a couple of hours after LW which is a close as you'd want to be there. Usually some scary numbers order the boat 0.3 etc but we've never touched with similar draft.
 
Many thanks, food for thought at least.

Tend to agree re Harwich to Burnham, it was just the Medway looked quite a biggish virgin jump, plus the mrs has never been so it's kind of on her list of places to go.
I'll be taking the longer route, thanks for the heads up.

Also I had not quite appreciated just how far it is up the Thames.
Well at least it'll be neaps.

Looking at the weather it looks like a fair bit of the trip will be burning through whats left of my red diesel.

Oh, by the way is Queenborough pontoon worth a try rather than going all the way to Gillingham , it was mentioned at work today ?
 
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I'd overnight in Queenborough and leave about an hour before low water. The tide runs hard in the Thames (not Southwold strengths!) and you'll easily make the marinas at the top.

Chatham is the better stop if you want to come up the Medway.

The pontoon in QB is out of action for landing while the work for the new pontoon goes on but the trot boat still runs. This is where PhilQueenborough came in handy......
 
Have managed to book a berth at Limehouse for Sat & Sun so at least that bit of the plan is sorted.

Will leave Southwold as soon as there's water tomorrow and head for Harwich, halfpenny pier and a drink and a meal in the Alma.

Then looking at the weather I think we'll go straight to the medway on Thursday and aim for Chatham as I fancy having a look round having never been.
So I fancy going round gunfleet and down barrow deep and west barrow.
 
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