Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Hear, hear
Rowers on the Thames
- Thread starter Captain Coochie
- Start date
cmarine
New Member
Give way to rowers, if they dont see you beep the horn!! hehe!! also slow down as your wash makes em angry and they shout rude things like blar blar blar!!! hehe!! they shouted at me once i thort they said go faster so i did!! ow well i never heard emm!!! hehe
Thisname
New Member
The "point" of rowing as opposed to motorboating........i believe i made it abundantly clear in my post that i was contrasting the physical benefit of rowing and the very limited detrimental effect it has on the enviroment as opposed to the motorboating which, as I pointed out is adding significantly to pollution and using up fossil fuels etc. And I have now realised that motorboating also has no physical benfits either........And before you say anything I was merely responding to the accusations suggesting rowers were "peasents" and "arrogant"......I have nothing against Motorboaters....except when they gripe about such petty issues. And yes I can see the hypocrisy in that statement.
PS Please feel free to point out any spelling or grammatical errors.
PS Please feel free to point out any spelling or grammatical errors.
duncan
Well-Known Member
ah - firstly I now see you are clicking on the reply button of the last post rather than the actual post you are responding to - easily done when viewing in flat mode but it can be confusing.
I too agree, as I think many are also suggesting, that generalisations are extremely bad and tend to have a negative effect on any argument - for example it is relatively easy to be able to illustrate the actions of one of a group but impossible to prove that it applies to all of them.
I think the initial post was trying to look at things from a regulatory, rules scenario so in the interests of neutralising the eco bit lets take a jogger who decides he is perfectly entitled to jog down the middle of the centre lane of a motoway, in black clothes, at night. Clearly all those cars just shouldn't be there - and certainly shouldn't actually be running their engines so that all right then?
Now if you want real examples of unreasonable behaviour and opinion have a look at this wonderfull thread currently running elsewhere....... just shoot them....
btw welcome to the forum
I too agree, as I think many are also suggesting, that generalisations are extremely bad and tend to have a negative effect on any argument - for example it is relatively easy to be able to illustrate the actions of one of a group but impossible to prove that it applies to all of them.
I think the initial post was trying to look at things from a regulatory, rules scenario so in the interests of neutralising the eco bit lets take a jogger who decides he is perfectly entitled to jog down the middle of the centre lane of a motoway, in black clothes, at night. Clearly all those cars just shouldn't be there - and certainly shouldn't actually be running their engines so that all right then?
Now if you want real examples of unreasonable behaviour and opinion have a look at this wonderfull thread currently running elsewhere....... just shoot them....
btw welcome to the forum
Sculler
New Member
From the point of view of a rower, I generally don't get annoyed with motorboats' steering, and I'd like to think I don't cut up too many powerboats. However, the reason many rowers treat powerboats inconsiderately is because we are generally annoyed with them not because of steering but because of wake. About 75% of powerboats in my experience keep their wake acceptable, and if I'm not too knackered I try to say thanks. However, about 15% travel too fast, making it impossible to continue sculling, and about 10% travel at a speed where the wake rides up over the side of the boat and soaks you, as well as preventing you from rowing well for about 250m. I suspect that it is because of these few bad examples that when we come up against most powerboats, rowers feel a bit aggreived and so don't show as much consideration as they should. Also, more directly, it's easier to have a go at the bloke who you're pulling out to overtake than the guy 500m down the river who just soaked you.
Ben
Ben
jonny
New Member
Very interesting and raises the same issues that appear on the Yarra River in Melbourne, Australia.
I am a rower/coach of 18 years experience and I also hold a licence to pilot a small vessel (launch, yacht).
http://www.rowersworld.com/Community/viewtopic.php?t=3183
I am a regular on a rowing discussion board and they are talking about you too!
I agree with many things that have been said here.
* Rowers are not well educated and rely on internal training. If that is not good (see university example above) then that rowing program is a nuisance.
* Rowers do not understand the dynamics of larger boats. I actually have to explain to crews I coach that the ferries don't have brakes!
* No 13 year old girl coxswain is going to make great decisions - so don't expect them!
However, a lot of what you blokes are saying sounds a lot like discussions I have heard in the past between motorists and cyclists.
Things motor boat operators:
* Not all are well trained. We have professionals and experienced pilots, and then there are the weekend warriors - no ideas, despite the new licencing requirements.
* What you consider a small wake is huge for us.
* Your boat is much stronger than a rowing boat.
We all have the same rules, but lack an understanding of the dynamics of each others craft.
I have been suggesting for a couple of years that we get the professional pilots on the Yarra River and stick them out in the middle of an eight (not to row, oars shipped) to get a feel for being so low - then wake them a bit with their own craft at the speed we think they are normally doing. Sort of like putting that Home Counties Range Rover driving twit in a Mini for a bit - see how you like them apples!
Once you understand your enemy, you will pity him instead.
I am a rower/coach of 18 years experience and I also hold a licence to pilot a small vessel (launch, yacht).
http://www.rowersworld.com/Community/viewtopic.php?t=3183
I am a regular on a rowing discussion board and they are talking about you too!
I agree with many things that have been said here.
* Rowers are not well educated and rely on internal training. If that is not good (see university example above) then that rowing program is a nuisance.
* Rowers do not understand the dynamics of larger boats. I actually have to explain to crews I coach that the ferries don't have brakes!
* No 13 year old girl coxswain is going to make great decisions - so don't expect them!
However, a lot of what you blokes are saying sounds a lot like discussions I have heard in the past between motorists and cyclists.
Things motor boat operators:
* Not all are well trained. We have professionals and experienced pilots, and then there are the weekend warriors - no ideas, despite the new licencing requirements.
* What you consider a small wake is huge for us.
* Your boat is much stronger than a rowing boat.
We all have the same rules, but lack an understanding of the dynamics of each others craft.
I have been suggesting for a couple of years that we get the professional pilots on the Yarra River and stick them out in the middle of an eight (not to row, oars shipped) to get a feel for being so low - then wake them a bit with their own craft at the speed we think they are normally doing. Sort of like putting that Home Counties Range Rover driving twit in a Mini for a bit - see how you like them apples!
Once you understand your enemy, you will pity him instead.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
During numerous encounters with the infamous Thames rowers last year did not find any problem what so ever.This could be because I am bit deaf with lousy eyesite and half asleep most of the time or maybe because my boat is capable of being steered and able to stop when required.
Always amuses when some owners of planing craft with outdrives,having been accused of causing wash,complain of difficulties manuvering at low speeds and blame the boat design ,nothing to do with their lack of skill at all then ? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Always amuses when some owners of planing craft with outdrives,having been accused of causing wash,complain of difficulties manuvering at low speeds and blame the boat design ,nothing to do with their lack of skill at all then ? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
duncan
Well-Known Member
I think there are valid element of hull design isues that probably fall into the wavelet category raised above - even at tickover for some craft adn certainly rleative to shorter, faster well designed displacement hulls designed for low / no wake on inland waters,
With regard to the group, with whatever hulls etc, that create significant wakes sufficient to 'soak' then this is likely to be down to the design of the brain rather than the hull!
Welcome to both our new forum members - Kim will have to add a new forum for rowers shortly!
With regard to the group, with whatever hulls etc, that create significant wakes sufficient to 'soak' then this is likely to be down to the design of the brain rather than the hull!
Welcome to both our new forum members - Kim will have to add a new forum for rowers shortly!
tinstaafl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The "point" of rowing as opposed to motorboating........i believe i made it abundantly clear in my post that i was contrasting the physical benefit of rowing and the very limited detrimental effect it has on the enviroment as opposed to the motorboating which, as I pointed out is adding significantly to pollution and using up fossil fuels etc. And I have now realised that motorboating also has no physical benfits either........And before you say anything I was merely responding to the accusations suggesting rowers were "peasents" and "arrogant"......I have nothing against Motorboaters....except when they gripe about such petty issues. And yes I can see the hypocrisy in that statement.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you don't agree with anything that doesn't have a "physical benefit" now? Might as well go home then, I'm not getting any physical benefit at work today /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
tinstaafl
The "point" of rowing as opposed to motorboating........i believe i made it abundantly clear in my post that i was contrasting the physical benefit of rowing and the very limited detrimental effect it has on the enviroment as opposed to the motorboating which, as I pointed out is adding significantly to pollution and using up fossil fuels etc. And I have now realised that motorboating also has no physical benfits either........And before you say anything I was merely responding to the accusations suggesting rowers were "peasents" and "arrogant"......I have nothing against Motorboaters....except when they gripe about such petty issues. And yes I can see the hypocrisy in that statement.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you don't agree with anything that doesn't have a "physical benefit" now? Might as well go home then, I'm not getting any physical benefit at work today /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
tinstaafl
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
>>>
So you don't agree with anything that doesn't have a "physical benefit" now? Might as well go home then, I'm not getting any physical benefit at work today
>>>
Agreed. But could I practice self abuse instead? That's a form of exercise and more fun than jogging
So you don't agree with anything that doesn't have a "physical benefit" now? Might as well go home then, I'm not getting any physical benefit at work today
>>>
Agreed. But could I practice self abuse instead? That's a form of exercise and more fun than jogging
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Only of benefit if you're ambidextrous.
Steve Clayton
Well-Known Member
Correcting Grammar - you did ask
[ QUOTE ]
PS Please feel free to point out any spelling or grammatical errors.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is considered rude on this forum to point out spelling or grammatical errors but as you have asked /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
The "point" of rowing as opposed to motorboating........i believe i made it abundantly clear in my post that i was contrasting the physical benefit of rowing and the very limited detrimental effect it has on the enviroment as opposed to the motorboating which, as I pointed out is adding significantly to pollution and using up fossil fuels etc. And I have now realised that motorboating also has no physical benfits either........And before you say anything I was merely responding to the accusations suggesting rowers were "peasents" and "arrogant"......I have nothing against Motorboaters....except when they gripe about such petty issues. And yes I can see the hypocrisy in that statement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I always thought it was just the one full stop at the end of a sentence?
"i" instead of "I"
"motorboating also has no physical benfits either" I found motorboating very relaxing and so gave me physical benefits in terms of wellbeing so you are incorrect. (and you can't spell benefits /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )
"effect it has" should be "effect that it has"
"And" at the start of a sentence??
"accusations suggesting rowers" In my post I was not "suggesting" as you state. I was stating a fact from my personal experiences
Spelling "peasents" - wrong
"I have nothing against Motorboaters...except". So you do have something against Motorboaters so you are grammatically incorrect.
Hope your rowing is better than your grammar/spelling /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
[ QUOTE ]
PS Please feel free to point out any spelling or grammatical errors.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is considered rude on this forum to point out spelling or grammatical errors but as you have asked /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
The "point" of rowing as opposed to motorboating........i believe i made it abundantly clear in my post that i was contrasting the physical benefit of rowing and the very limited detrimental effect it has on the enviroment as opposed to the motorboating which, as I pointed out is adding significantly to pollution and using up fossil fuels etc. And I have now realised that motorboating also has no physical benfits either........And before you say anything I was merely responding to the accusations suggesting rowers were "peasents" and "arrogant"......I have nothing against Motorboaters....except when they gripe about such petty issues. And yes I can see the hypocrisy in that statement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I always thought it was just the one full stop at the end of a sentence?
"i" instead of "I"
"motorboating also has no physical benfits either" I found motorboating very relaxing and so gave me physical benefits in terms of wellbeing so you are incorrect. (and you can't spell benefits /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )
"effect it has" should be "effect that it has"
"And" at the start of a sentence??
"accusations suggesting rowers" In my post I was not "suggesting" as you state. I was stating a fact from my personal experiences
Spelling "peasents" - wrong
"I have nothing against Motorboaters...except". So you do have something against Motorboaters so you are grammatically incorrect.
Hope your rowing is better than your grammar/spelling /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Keen_Ed
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you could explain the "point" of rowing?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's one of the most satisfying sports there is. The feeling of being in an eight (or four, or quad) when the crew are on song is indescribable - the feeling of unity of purpose, of power through the water, the noise of the boat moving through the water, sharp catches, crisp finishes. And then there's racing - pushing yourself to see where your limits are (because you get significant built-ups of lactic acid - it can really hurt) - and hopefully resulting the wonderful sight of seeing your opposition behind you.
And then there are other pleasures. I remember taking a single scull one afternoon from Putney to Richmond lock and back. It was only me on the river - water was as flat as a pancake. Peace, quiet, sunny, and wonderful.
A good outing in a rowing boat is in my view, - along with a well taken topspin forehand, Colorado powder early on a sunny day, the view from a mountain top to which you've walked yourself, and sailing a Laser downwind in waves among the many things that makes life worth living.
There are idiots who do every activity. Surely the way forward is communication and education, rather than ranting and foaming at the mouth? I'm horrified by the poster who deliberatly hit an eight that was turning in front of him. I understand that it was inconsiderate, to say the least for them to turn in front of you, and such behaviour might well deserve a bit of a rant, but HITTING them!!!!! You do know, I assume, that suddenly finding yourself in cold water when you've been working hard is EXTREMELY dangerous? And that the anti scour sluices used on the Thames are almost guaranteed to be lethal should you find yourself washed into them? - It's another scandal that there aren't safety booms placed upriver of sluices.
On the tidal Thames at least, when I rowed (about 10 years ago now), we rarely went out on a Friday night. Therefore, instead of proceeding downriver on Saturday morning and finding yourself slowing down numerous times, why not start on Friday night?
Also, I doubt very many oarsmen understand the difficulting of manoevering large boats. But then how many people here understand the disruption caused by wash - even a few inches is significant when your freeboard is measured in inches.
Perhaps you could explain the "point" of rowing?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's one of the most satisfying sports there is. The feeling of being in an eight (or four, or quad) when the crew are on song is indescribable - the feeling of unity of purpose, of power through the water, the noise of the boat moving through the water, sharp catches, crisp finishes. And then there's racing - pushing yourself to see where your limits are (because you get significant built-ups of lactic acid - it can really hurt) - and hopefully resulting the wonderful sight of seeing your opposition behind you.
And then there are other pleasures. I remember taking a single scull one afternoon from Putney to Richmond lock and back. It was only me on the river - water was as flat as a pancake. Peace, quiet, sunny, and wonderful.
A good outing in a rowing boat is in my view, - along with a well taken topspin forehand, Colorado powder early on a sunny day, the view from a mountain top to which you've walked yourself, and sailing a Laser downwind in waves among the many things that makes life worth living.
There are idiots who do every activity. Surely the way forward is communication and education, rather than ranting and foaming at the mouth? I'm horrified by the poster who deliberatly hit an eight that was turning in front of him. I understand that it was inconsiderate, to say the least for them to turn in front of you, and such behaviour might well deserve a bit of a rant, but HITTING them!!!!! You do know, I assume, that suddenly finding yourself in cold water when you've been working hard is EXTREMELY dangerous? And that the anti scour sluices used on the Thames are almost guaranteed to be lethal should you find yourself washed into them? - It's another scandal that there aren't safety booms placed upriver of sluices.
On the tidal Thames at least, when I rowed (about 10 years ago now), we rarely went out on a Friday night. Therefore, instead of proceeding downriver on Saturday morning and finding yourself slowing down numerous times, why not start on Friday night?
Also, I doubt very many oarsmen understand the difficulting of manoevering large boats. But then how many people here understand the disruption caused by wash - even a few inches is significant when your freeboard is measured in inches.
Steve Clayton
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I understand that it was inconsiderate, to say the least for them to turn in front of you, and such behaviour might well deserve a bit of a rant, but HITTING them!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
The second I saw what they were doing and that I had nowhere to go cos of oncoming downstream traffic I called "WATER!!!" and they hadn't got a clue. I either turned and ploughed into incoming or hit them. I simply choose the lesser of two options in the situation confronting me.
Well aware of what wash could do to rowers. Always slowed right down well before passing and occasionally (but rarely) received the nod acknowledgement by them of courteous actions understood by water users.
.
I understand that it was inconsiderate, to say the least for them to turn in front of you, and such behaviour might well deserve a bit of a rant, but HITTING them!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
The second I saw what they were doing and that I had nowhere to go cos of oncoming downstream traffic I called "WATER!!!" and they hadn't got a clue. I either turned and ploughed into incoming or hit them. I simply choose the lesser of two options in the situation confronting me.
Well aware of what wash could do to rowers. Always slowed right down well before passing and occasionally (but rarely) received the nod acknowledgement by them of courteous actions understood by water users.
.
Captain Coochie
Well-Known Member
Re: Correcting Grammar - you did ask
You missed Enviroment - Environment . The agency we pay to use the river . Do the Thames rowers pay the Environment Agency anything ?
You missed Enviroment - Environment . The agency we pay to use the river . Do the Thames rowers pay the Environment Agency anything ?
Steve Clayton
Well-Known Member
Hi Jason,
going back to your original questions:
On the Thames do they (rowers) have right of way? No; normal rules of the road apply however it is reasonable to acknowledge that they are probably in training mode and it is courtesy, wherever possible, not to impede them.
Put the question another way "Do rowers think that they have right of way?" Yes - but they are wrong /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Does Sail have right of way? Yes, but they are obliged not to put other vessels in difficult situations (after all we are talking about a narrow channel). It can be difficult when, for instance, just above Cleeve Lock, you have the sailing club with 15 to 20 sailing dinghies weaving their way through a bouyed course and you have to thread your way through them , and once again, trying not to impede any of them.
And do rowers pay the Enviroment Agency? Don't know the answer to this one (but I know a man who does so I'll ask him) but I would expect that they do make a contribution (as every vessel that is on the river, is required to be registered with the EA).
going back to your original questions:
On the Thames do they (rowers) have right of way? No; normal rules of the road apply however it is reasonable to acknowledge that they are probably in training mode and it is courtesy, wherever possible, not to impede them.
Put the question another way "Do rowers think that they have right of way?" Yes - but they are wrong /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Does Sail have right of way? Yes, but they are obliged not to put other vessels in difficult situations (after all we are talking about a narrow channel). It can be difficult when, for instance, just above Cleeve Lock, you have the sailing club with 15 to 20 sailing dinghies weaving their way through a bouyed course and you have to thread your way through them , and once again, trying not to impede any of them.
And do rowers pay the Enviroment Agency? Don't know the answer to this one (but I know a man who does so I'll ask him) but I would expect that they do make a contribution (as every vessel that is on the river, is required to be registered with the EA).
Elessar
Well-Known Member
On the way out to sea just before Kew, I slowed to sit behind a single scull to avoid wake. 5 mins or so passed, he looked more and more frustrated. Seemingly disapointed not to be able to yell at me for my wake he yelled at my boy and his friend on our foredeck for talking too loudly.
I was expecting a thank you and my lad got shouted at instead.
Rude rower was not expecting, but did deserve, a boat full of water as I accelerated past him at full throttle. You know that really nastly bit of wake as the boat is trying to accelerate out of the hole. I enjoyed the abuse that followed.
I was expecting a thank you and my lad got shouted at instead.
Rude rower was not expecting, but did deserve, a boat full of water as I accelerated past him at full throttle. You know that really nastly bit of wake as the boat is trying to accelerate out of the hole. I enjoyed the abuse that followed.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I think you were jolly unfair. They are all very fine chaps. A little prayer before the start is always encouraged and you were damnably inconsiderate.
Captain Coochie
Well-Known Member
I think the rowing clubs pay the EA and that covers the members ,just a guess . Maybe if they had to pay out for a licence a safty cert and insurance they would give a little back to other boaters . Maybe they do pay the same as every one else , maybe a member of the rowing forum can tell me ? As for sitting behind another craft waiting for them to make a move , i found it easy sitting behind a sail boat last weekend because there was no wind , i sat back and waited for 10 mins as i could see the problem the chap had , he was very thankfull as i past once he caught his wind . I find rowers give no clues or eye contact as to what they are about to do . Unless its 6am and the nice chap on a bike is barking orders from a loud speaker /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)
boatone
Well-Known Member
Having checked with the EA it would appear that rowing boats without propulsion are registered at a standard charge of £21.10 for 2005 and a rowing club would need to register each vessel. The zippy zippy cigar shaped obergropenfuhrer 'Im in charge' o/b boats come under the same Power driven Launch charges as the rest of us MoBo's based on their square foot measurements.
Interesting how long this thread has been running and that Rowers have joined in. Unfortunately, they are most likely the enlightened ones rather than those who wittingly or unwittingly create the problems.
I'm not saying all MoBo'ers are perfect either but its difficult to say I've upset a rower with my wash when a) I cant get past him so my wash is yet to become an issue and b) he/she just studiously ignores me or even, on one memorable occasion, hurls a string of invective my way when politely asked to 'clear the fairway'.
I suspect the problem will continue to tax hearts and minds long after I quit the river but its good to give it an airing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Interesting how long this thread has been running and that Rowers have joined in. Unfortunately, they are most likely the enlightened ones rather than those who wittingly or unwittingly create the problems.
I'm not saying all MoBo'ers are perfect either but its difficult to say I've upset a rower with my wash when a) I cant get past him so my wash is yet to become an issue and b) he/she just studiously ignores me or even, on one memorable occasion, hurls a string of invective my way when politely asked to 'clear the fairway'.
I suspect the problem will continue to tax hearts and minds long after I quit the river but its good to give it an airing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
