Round Britain and Ireland for a novice: Realistic?

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Knightrider

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I'm planning to buy a boat of up to 25 feet and a bit lively. I intend to sail two-up over 2-3 months around Britain and Ireland (the long way), treating the whole thing as a series of day sails ... waiting out the bad weather. I grew up sailing dinghies, did my comp crew 10 years ago, moved to London, stopped sailing, and now I want to get going again. I have a motley crew of mountain climbers and sea kayakers who each want do one week stints, but they have a combined total of 2 hours sailing experience (on a Hobie Cat with me as the instructor!!)

I could really use your help with some questions: where do I begin? Is my plan feasible? How to get qualified and build up experience? What boats do you recommend (creature comforts not necessary - I'm thinking Beneteau First 21.7)? And most importantly: which way round???

All advice greatly appreciated :-)

P.s. I'm thirty years old, I have a boat budget of £15k-£30k and I've got three months off work from July to September 2016. I'm a very experienced sea kayaker, fit and healthy, have a lot of enthusiasm and a healthy respect for the sea!
 
Knightrider said:
I'm planning to buy a boat of up to 25 feet and a bit lively. I intend to sail two-up over 2-3 months around Britain and Ireland (the long way), treating the whole thing as a series of day sails ... waiting out the bad weather. I grew up sailing dinghies, did my comp crew 10 years ago, moved to London, stopped sailing, and now I want to get going again. I have a motley crew of mountain climbers and sea kayakers who each want do one week stints, but they have a combined total of 2 hours sailing experience (on a Hobie Cat with me as the instructor!!)

I could really use your help with some questions: where do I begin? Is my plan feasible? How to get qualified and build up experience? What boats do you recommend (creature comforts not necessary - I'm thinking Beneteau First 21.7)? And most importantly: which way round???
N
All advice greatly appreciated :-)

P.s. I'm thirty years old, I have a boat budget of £15k-£30k and I've got three months off work from July to September 2016. I'm a very experienced sea kayaker, fit and healthy, have a lot of enthusiasm and a healthy respect for the sea!
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Don't be reliant on crew turning up. Aim to be a self-sufficient single-hander. If they turn up, well and good.

Put novice crew on the helm asap. Once they 'get it' (20mins ish) you can talk about sail trim and watch keeping. Now show faith in them and go below and navigate or prepare food.

Your deep fin will limit your harbours a little bit - especially N Sea. You may have to do a long leg including a night-sail.

Wind farms proliferate off Lincs, Norfolk, Suffolk and Thames.

Which way round? I did it clock-wise. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way.

Have a good trip.
 
Great idea, lots of stuff online, advice and stuff...sift through it, discard the dreamers and liars and go for it, you will have a great time.
 
NW corner of Ireland is a bit exposed and anchorages/harbours can be quite far from each other- we had plenty of 70nm days and encountered some pretty unpleasant weather- so plan to have plenty of time to spare in case you get holed up somewhere.
 
Morning Knightrider ... I have a book by Roger Oliver .. Sailing around the UK and Ireland ... I will send it to you if you PM me your address .... I was thinking of doing this then things took a turn for the better and I am now off on a bigger journey and will not need it ....
 
3 months is not very long when you cross out all the windy days and all the days when the tide is going the wrong way.
The 21.7 does not seem a good choice of boat, IMHO you want something with an inboard and a good motoring range, or you won't be making landfall on the light days either.
Buying petrol dockside may not be easy in the remote areas?
OTOH, the fact that it is trailerable might take some of the stress away, as you can get as far a possible then tow it home, rather than having to allow x days to sail down the East Coast.
I've known a lot of people attempt this, most seem to end up doing the Caledonian Canal after running out of time (this can be related to enjoying Ireland too much as well as adverse weather and intrusions from business or life at home).

I'd feel it is a big thing to be doing with a collection of people less knowledgable than oneself, that puts a lot of responsibility on you, compared to equal partners having a bash. On that basis, I might want more safety budget.

Finally going clockwise, the trip ends with long dull days around Kent and Sussex if you are Solent based. It can be an anti climax to the point of losing the plot after enjoying the Scottish Islands etc.

Also, with the joys of english winter, you don't have long to find the right boat, complete the purchase, fit out and work up to full readiness. You should have started a while back TBH.
 
Good luck, I enjoyed my solo voyage this year but did not go "outside Ireland". It took me ten weeks, 42 days "at sea", 1850 nautical miles. As above, suitable ports can be far apart (my boat is also a fin keel. 1.5m). I managed with only one night sail, and even that could have been avoided, but some long days - 19 hours the longest.

Doesn't really matter where you begin because that's where you'll end (hopefully). I suppose it should be somewhere convenient for travel.
I went anticlockwise, assuming I'd have the east coast with prevailing SW'lies - got everything, but few SWlies!!
Padstow - Newlyn needs good fortune and determination - it's a long way without any deep-keel havens. But you may be going across to Ireland if you have a crew.

My main regret is that I didn't want/have time to stop and enjoy the many splendid places I over-nighted in.

PM me if you would like further info on places, distances, times etc.

GOOD LUCK for a truly enjoyable challenge
 
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My advice is to buy something that will take the ground

as in twin or triple keel

it opens up lots more places to hide from the weather and makes the boat a lot cheaper to dump somewhere ashore should you need to break the journey into two halves

you will lose half a knot but who gives a fig

buy an old centaur/macwester and do it this spring

you know enough already

navigation is a piece of cake nowdays

locals will tell you about the tidal gates between where you are and where you are going

above all ignore the doom-mongers who tell you all the qualifications you need and why you should not do it

D

PS - three months is too much of a rush - you will miss more than you will see.
 
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West coast of Ireland is beautiful and the Scottish Isles are apparently stunning. Depth won't be a problem as the First 21.7 is I think a lifting keel boat I think.

The only trouble is that big dinghy style boats like this need quite active sailing and I'd personally be wary of relying on an inexperienced crew to sail a Cat C boat like that, especially on the longer overnight legs if and when it blows a bit.
 
Were it me with that budget, I wouldn't buy a 21.7. I would get a Sadler 29 to do it in (similar money). Solid, seaworthy, unsinkable, but still has a good turn of speed and sails nicely.

Do your Dayskipper theory (lights, marks, colregs, etc) and your VHF, and then just go sailing for a season and get some miles in with your boat.

Then next year you should be ready for it.
 
Bobc said:
Were it me with that budget, I wouldn't buy a 21.7. I would get a Sadler 29 to do it in (similar money). Solid, seaworthy, unsinkable, but still has a good turn of speed and sails nicely.

Do your Dayskipper theory (lights, marks, colregs, etc) and your VHF, and then just go sailing for a season and get some miles in with your boat.

Then next year you should be ready for it.
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or a sadler 26 - sails brilliantly, unsinkable, does not fall over when the tide goes out
 
If it were me - and since you said creature comforts were unimportant - I would consider an old Mini. It will be fast and safe, though not always comfortable. With any wind aft of the beam you will fly, and it will make decent progress to windward. Keeping it light would be important. You would be camping in a boat rather than cruising, but what an adventure.

A Pogo 1, TipTop or Ginto would be in your price range. Pogo 1 would be most practical to cruise and I see some are available at around €20,000 or less. The others have companionways that are very protected (and consequently difficult to get in and out).

http://www.classemini.com/?titre=&mode=petites-annonces&fiche=85

Actually at the upper end of your price range you might just get a Pogo 2, but since the last 5% of performance is probably not what you are interested in, a Pogo 1 would probably be perfect. I have seen one that was set up very nicely for cruising, so it is more than possible. No installed heads, though. Bucket & chuck it.

If you go the bucket & chuck it route, I recommend using biodegradable bags - the kind you put veggies and things in for composting. Do your business in there then chuck the bag over the side. No need to clean the bucket. Much more hygienic and simpler.
 
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If it was me I wouldn't buy the First either- it's probably an excellent boat and I'm sure it would make the trip and provide some excellent sailing, but for a scratch crew and relatively inexperienced (although I'm sure committed and determined) skipper, a boat of this sort could give people some alarming experiences say crossing the western approaches or around the west coast of Ireland where it will get the full atlantic weather. I also agree with the advice to get a boat with an inboard diesel.

I hate to mention it but one thing I've learnt from sailing RORC with scratch, inexperienced crews is that people get quite stressed over ablutions, 12+ hours in a boat without a seperate heads could lead some people to get very grumpy! So unless the OP really is very sure of the hardiness of all his likely companions, I would consider a larger cruiser with a proper heads.

I try to stay out of the forum trap of recommending my own boat for stuff, but it does strike me that the Hanse 301 probably has the performance to satisfy the OP as well as enough fit out to lower crew stress. They are also available within his budget, albeit towards the top end.

Cheers
 
Morning,

First up, no reason not to do it so crack on and enjoy.

I race a 21.7, would I potter off around the UK in one, er no! They tend to be a bit of a pig in a blow and as has been mentioned, an outboard on the back perhaps isn't the best, prop lifting out of the water in a seaway, trying to find petrol dockside etc.

As Dylan mentioned, navigation is generally straightforward, passage planning with tidal gates etc is something to get familiar with over Winter. Committing to a full lap in the time period will be a challenge, which is fine. But part of passage planning is identifying plan B's, C's and D's to fall over to when plan A isn't looking to promising.

As for boat type to go for, as per Dylan again, I'd look at something solid that will take the odd beating when out and about, somewhere 25ft -30ft. I know this is sounding biased, but I've got a Sabre 27 (twin keel), large diesel engine which is a relatively cheap boat to purchase and run and will look after you in a blow, but shallow enough draft and able to take bottom in just in case. Also a doddle to sail single handed, or you can sneak 3 up for a week of so. Other options are available:encouragement:

I'd also suggest spending a couple of weekends crewing on someones boat to see if you actually like it or not? Seems a waste of 3 months if it turns out you get real seasick/find it boring/not for you. A week on a Day Skipper course might be a good investment, no need for the ticket chasing, but it's good to pick the instructors brains, test your knowledge and skills and get a little experience living on a boat.

VHF-short range radio ticket is a must if you haven't got one yet, so you're familiar with and confident with how that process works. Plus it's a bit of a legal requirement, though unlikely anyone will come chasing after you.

Apart from that lot, have fun!

Chris.
 
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