Ronseal yacht varnish - thin 1st coat or not?

[Avocet]

I've just bought a tin of the above (having been impressed with the performance of their "exterior" varnish in the past). This stuff claims to outlast their exterior varnish, so I thought I'd give it a try!

Being a Ronseal product, it comes with the usual claim - subject to the user faithfully following the instructions ON the tin. Conventional wisdom recommends thinning the first coat anything betwen 10 and 25% with white spirit. The instructions on the tin, however, merely say to apply 3 coats...

Should I stil lthin the first coat?
Brushes still get cleaned with white spirit, so I assume it could also be used for thinning.

 

[theoldsalt]

Avocet,

When varnishing bare wood I always thin the first two coats to help it soak in which imroves adhesion. I have found that if the varnish is not thinned it tends to lift after a time, especially if the wood flexes or moves due to moisture content changes.

Cannot understand why manufacture's instructions don't include this.

 

[VicS]

I think the best advice you can be given is to follow the manufacturers instructions on the back of the tin

 

[Avocet]

Well, I tried that, but couldn't find any reference to thinning (first coat or otherwise)! That said, it's pretty common for tins not to recommend thinning the first coat, and yet it's widespread practice...

 

[Seajet]

I always thin with thinners for a first coat of varnish on bare wood, say 10% very roughly; works for me.

 

[VicS]

Well, I tried that, but couldn't find any reference to thinning (first coat or otherwise)! That said, it's pretty common for tins not to recommend thinning the first coat, and yet it's widespread practice...

I have not been able to find a product data sheet other than "the back of the tin"
With other products sometimes thinning for the first coat is advised, sometimes it is not. It is recommended for Ronseal "Trade Polyurethane varnish"

You obviously want to thin it regardless of the instructions.
If you do I'd suggest not more than 10%

 

[Bloater]

A word of warning, Yacht varnish isn't really designed for the exterior of boats. It has no UV protectors in it, you would be better off with the exterior varnish. The main property of yacht varnish is its deep glossy shine.

 

[AIDY]

i was going to say it's not the same as the b+q own make yacht vanish (made by international) that states for inside use only

 

[VicS]

A word of warning, Yacht varnish isn't really designed for the exterior of boats. It has no UV protectors in it, you would be better off with the exterior varnish. The main property of yacht varnish is its deep glossy shine.

The description of Ronseal Yacht Varnish is :

Ronseal Yacht Varnish
For wood exposed to the elements, Ronseal Yacht Varnish flexes with the movement of the wood, resisting cracking peeling and blistering. The weatherproofing formula protects the wood from damaging UV rays whilst waterproofing to prevent water damage.
Lasts longer than other exterior varnishes
Refreshes previously stained wood without darkening
Resists cracking peeling and blistering
Superior UV protection​

It is incidentally a satin finish not a high gloss

The description of their Outdoor Varnish is

Ronseal Outdoor Varnish
Wood can take a battering from the elements. Ronseal Outdoor Varnish has a durable, long lasting finish that resists cracking and blistering. The weatherproofing formula protects the wood from damaging UV rays whilst waterproofing to prevent water damage.
Durable and long lasting
Refreshes previously stained wood without darkening
Resists cracking, peeling and blistering
Superior UV protection​

It is available in a gloss or satin finish


Personally I'd not use either as a yacht varnish but I have not tried them .. I might be surprised

 

[Lakesailor]

If you do I'd suggest not more than 10%

I agree with that.
I wouldn't expect a great deal of it. I've used it for four years on a friend's boat (he supplies the coatings) and on the rubbing strakes, handrails and washboards it needs re-coating every year.
Does look nice when just done though. Interesting that Vic's spec says satin only. I'll have double-check the tin. I wonder how old it is?

 

[Bloater]

OK, I stand corrected. I was talking about generic yacht varnish. Just because it says yacht varnish doesn't necessarily mean that it is intended to be put on yachts.

Ronseal can call their product whatever they want. In my opinion if it has a satin finish it isn't yacht varnish, although it appears in this case to be a varnish for yachts.

 

[VicS]

OK, I stand corrected. I was talking about generic yacht varnish. Just because it says yacht varnish doesn't necessarily mean that it is intended to be put on yachts.

Ronseal can call their product whatever they want. In my opinion if it has a satin finish it isn't yacht varnish, although it appears in this case to be a varnish for yachts.

I am sure you are right. I think some brands of "yacht varnish" are not even marketed for exterior use, but I suppose even yachts have interiors

The satin finish surprised me but I currently use Sikkens Cetol Marine. Thats not exactly a high gloss finish.

 

[Avocet]

The description of Ronseal Yacht Varnish is :

Ronseal Yacht Varnish
For wood exposed to the elements, Ronseal Yacht Varnish flexes with the movement of the wood, resisting cracking peeling and blistering. The weatherproofing formula protects the wood from damaging UV rays whilst waterproofing to prevent water damage.
Lasts longer than other exterior varnishes
Refreshes previously stained wood without darkening
Resists cracking peeling and blistering
Superior UV protection​

It is incidentally a satin finish not a high gloss

The description of their Outdoor Varnish is

Ronseal Outdoor Varnish
Wood can take a battering from the elements. Ronseal Outdoor Varnish has a durable, long lasting finish that resists cracking and blistering. The weatherproofing formula protects the wood from damaging UV rays whilst waterproofing to prevent water damage.
Durable and long lasting
Refreshes previously stained wood without darkening
Resists cracking, peeling and blistering
Superior UV protection​

It is available in a gloss or satin finish


Personally I'd not use either as a yacht varnish but I have not tried them .. I might be surprised

Interesting. The tin I've just bought says "GLOSS" in big red letters on the front of the tin! I'm hoping, (given their clever advertising slogan!) that it IS what it says on the tin!

I probably ought to provide a bit of background:

I'm well aware of the "not for marine use" warnings on some yacht varnishes. In fact, I was very disappointed when (some years ago now), I used international yacht varnish. It was before the "not for marine use" warnings appeard, and it didn't last very long. I then went for Ronseal Exterior and found it lasted better than the International, so I saved a bit of money and didn't bother with the International.

Now I've read plenty of threads on here about varnishes, and I'm sure the "proper" stuff like Epifanes, Le Tonkinois, etc are much better. I might even give them a go on Avocet's brightwork - if I ever get Avocet back in the water! This, however, is for the spars on the kids' Heron dinghy, which are going to spend most of their time in the corner of the porch, away from rain and UV. The rest of their time, they're probably going to spend on the lakes - probably Derwentwater, (and also, therefore, still likely to be away from UV)!

So what I'm after, is something more knock resistant than UV resistant, really. It's a gunter rig, so the gaff jaws abrade the mast quite a lot in use. As it claimed on the tin, they reeckonit's a bit tougher and more flexible. As I've already been pleased with their "Outdoor" (for the money), I thought I'd give this a crack, but wondered if there might be any "trick" polymers in there that don't take kindly to being thinned, so I thought I'd ask on here just in case anyone had tried it and bad things had happened.

Anyway, it's too late for that now. The first coat is on the rudder stock, blade and tiller (thinned "a bit" - probably less than 10%), so I'll see what happens...

...haven't started the spars yet, still sanding.

 

[VicS]

This, however, is for the spars on the kids' Heron dinghy

Previously varnished then?

Normally a thinned coat is only applied to new wood. It should not be necessary if previously varnished.

The tin I've just bought says "GLOSS" in big red letters on the front of the tin!

I think you will find its white letters on a red background. I wonder why they indicate its only in satin on the website

http://www.diy.com/nav/decor/paint/...rnish/Ronseal-Yacht-Varnish-Clear-1L-11348552

 

[prv]

The description of Ronseal Yacht Varnish is :
[...]

Only significant difference between the two blurbs seems to be that the Yacht Varnish "flexes with the movement of the wood". So I guess it might be considered along the lines of "spar varnish" which is supposed to allow for movement.

In my opinion if it has a satin finish it isn't yacht varnish

Epifanes, who I think few would deny make proper varnish for yachts, do a satin finish. I used it for my new chart table as I didn't want a shiny glossy surface.

Pete

 

[pappaecho]

If you thin down the first coat the varnish is absorbed into the fibres of the wood surface.
This acts as base for the subsequent coats.

If you dont thin it, you may find the coats will peel off in bright sunshine over time.

Your call

 

[Poignard]

Do exactly what it says on the tin.

 

[BarryH]

Interesting. The tin I've just bought says "GLOSS" in big red letters on the front of the tin! I'm hoping, (given their clever advertising slogan!) that it IS what it says on the tin!

I probably ought to provide a bit of background:

I'm well aware of the "not for marine use" warnings on some yacht varnishes. In fact, I was very disappointed when (some years ago now), I used international yacht varnish. It was before the "not for marine use" warnings appeard, and it didn't last very long. I then went for Ronseal Exterior and found it lasted better than the International, so I saved a bit of money and didn't bother with the International.

Now I've read plenty of threads on here about varnishes, and I'm sure the "proper" stuff like Epifanes, Le Tonkinois, etc are much better. I might even give them a go on Avocet's brightwork - if I ever get Avocet back in the water! This, however, is for the spars on the kids' Heron dinghy, which are going to spend most of their time in the corner of the porch, away from rain and UV. The rest of their time, they're probably going to spend on the lakes - probably Derwentwater, (and also, therefore, still likely to be away from UV)!

So what I'm after, is something more knock resistant than UV resistant, really. It's a gunter rig, so the gaff jaws abrade the mast quite a lot in use. As it claimed on the tin, they reeckonit's a bit tougher and more flexible. As I've already been pleased with their "Outdoor" (for the money), I thought I'd give this a crack, but wondered if there might be any "trick" polymers in there that don't take kindly to being thinned, so I thought I'd ask on here just in case anyone had tried it and bad things had happened.

Anyway, it's too late for that now. The first coat is on the rudder stock, blade and tiller (thinned "a bit" - probably less than 10%), so I'll see what happens...

...haven't started the spars yet, still sanding.

I used Japlac clear enamel on the spars of the mirror. Was supposed to be hard wearing it lasted 2 years before it needed doing again. The mast only really needed it, but I did the others as well. It was hard wearing but I found the high gloss finish created a bit of friction when hauling up the gaff. Not a big deal in a dinghy sailed in poole and on the lake at home.
I've not been able to find Japlac for a couple of years. I did wonder if oiling the spars would be a better idea. A few coats are easy to apply every six moths or so. Don't know if it would give the protection needed.......

 

[Avocet]

Previously varnished then?

Normally a thinned coat is only applied to new wood. It should not be necessary if previously varnished.

Previous varnish was absolutely wrecked - more bare wood than varnish left, so I took it all back to bare wood.

I think you will find its white letters on a red background.

Whatever...