Roller Reefing Main And Kicking Claw

[CaptainBob]

I've read a lot of posts saying that a kicking claw is bad idea as it can damage the main... and the alternative of rolling something into the sail and attaching to that to make a kicking strap sounds far from a perfect solution also...

Someone in a post (olewill I think) suggested simply losing the main and using the jib alone when you need to reef. What's the drawback of that? I assume there is one?

Poor windward performance?

 

[MoodySabre]

Except when going downwind a jib alone will keep the boat balanced and free from weather helm. Reducing both sails is usually a better idea. Perhaps it might be better to change to slab reefing as many boats with roller mains now have.

 

[Thistle]

A purpose-made reefing strop - a long triangle of sailcloth with a ring to take the kicker sewn in the point - is preferable in place of the sail bag. Your local sailmaker should be able to run one up.

 

[William_H]

Sorry Captain Bob I don' think it was me. I very seldom sail my boat with one sail. In fact never with a jib only and only under main only when arriving at the swing mooring. I tend to regard sailing as beating and mine sails a lot better (fractional rig) with both sails working.

I would however advocate slab reefing 2 lines. I had a friend on board 2 weeks ago who was helming. My regular crew and I had a reef pulled in, in something less than 10 seconds. He was impressed. In this case we did not bother to tie up the slack (spare ) sail.
Howzat 21ft trailer sailer has seperate reefing rope at the clew and something very similar at the tack. (with a pull bias forward as well as down). She has 4 halyard winches so each reef line has a winch.

Procedure is to head to near wind so jib is still driving. The main, with bolt rope in the track won't slide, if off the wind. I drop the main halyard by a distance about half the reef depth. (this drops the boom but not too much as to hit anything) Then winch down the tack line and winch the clew line to near tight. This latter lifts the boom back to nearer normal. I then drop the main halyard to near the required amount. Tighten the tack line which will then tension the luff if the halyard has been dropped the correct amount. Winch in the clew line to very tight to stretch the foot and we have a very nicely shaped reefed main.

If we have the energy a short piece of line through the eyelets can tidy up the slack sail. I feel the front one is most critical as this is where the wind billows the slack sail.
I generally don't go to a second reef unless it is done before departure when I move the reefing lines to the deeper reef. But the second reef (and third) can be threaded up at the expense of lots of rope lying around.

So regards roller reefing I suggest convert to slab reefing. It can be a real joy to have a well set flat mainsail when the wind blows hard or you just want to potter sedately around. good luck olewill

 

[CaptainBob]

Ah, sorry to misquote you.

What's the drawback of using just the jib?

I'm totally new to sailing btw, so your last post went whooshing over my head.

 

[William_H]

Well it depends a lot on the boat and it's behaviour. Any boat will sail down wind or across wind but to sail successfully against the wind needs everything just right. In my case my boat just won't go well to windward with just a jib or in fact just a main sail. The slot between the two really gets it working to windward p[lus the jib is a very easy indicator if you try to sail too close to the wind.

So if you are new to sailing first rule is always to sail against the wind, if you can, so if you have trouble or when you get tired it is easy to sail home again.

OK to sail well against the wind you need the right amount of sail. I hope or imagine you have several different sized jibs. Unfortunately you can't just say I want to be conservative and use a small one. To sail against the wind you need the right size. Sure start with a small one but put a bigger one on if if seems a bit sedate.
Usually when the wind is a bit strong for your smaller jib you need to reduce mainsail size. Reefing.
Roller reefing seems simple just roll it up. Unfortunately to sail in stronger winds requires the sail to be flat. ie min camber or belly.
Belly (camber) is reduced by putting tension on the outhaul of the main and by increasing halyard tension. Also to some extent by increasing vang tension. Your roller reefing is not good at any of these.
The outhaul is via several rolls of cloth so not effective. When I say tight I mean a 3 or 4 part purchase pulling the foot of the sail out as hard as one person can achieve. This for a 20 odd ft boat.
Likewise the halyard tension with rolls just rolls the sail tighter. Without rolls you need the tension again on a 20fter of a winch or 4 purchase pulling the halyard as hard as you can. So to do that with the sail partly rolled would just tighten up the sail.

Now slab reefing is more normal and requires an eyelet about 15% up from the outhaul of the main and similar eyelet 15% up from the gooseneck. The higher eyelet effectively becomes the outhaul and the higher eyelet at the front becomes the attachment at the gooseneck. The front attachment can be done by hooking the eyelet around a special horn or eplacing the normal tack attachment with the higher eyelet. In my case I use a rope via pulleys so it can be done from the cockpit.

Almost always the back eyelet is pulled down and back by a rope which leads forward to the goosenecjk or cockpit. This is because when you need to reef at sea you can't reach the back of the boom.

This rig will give a strong support for the front (new) bottom of the mainsail so the halyard can be pulled on very tight and also so the outhaul on the new eyelet can be pulled forward very hard to flatten the sail while also taking the reaction of the boom pulling the aft end of the sail down.

If you have these eyelets in your sail. You can do a very effective reef. Provided you do it before departure. A strong cord or light rope is taken from the eyelet at the back of the sail (the one about 1 to 2 ft up from the bottom) and wrapped around the boom several times to lash the eyelet close to the boom.
At the front the eyelet is lashed close to the boom but another rope is used to lash the eyelet close to the mast by wrapping around the mas several times.
Now the back eyelet can be connected to the outhaul or another lashing used from the end of the boom to the eyelet round several times so the sail can be pulled out very tight towards the end of the boom.

Finally and only for the sake of tidiness the slack (unused) sail can be tied up against the boom. To faciltate this several eyelets should be fitted into the bottom of the sail in a line between the end eyelets. Pass a piece of string or cord through the eyelet and around the boom and spare sail to bunch it up against the boom.
Note this tieing down of the sail to the boom is not to take any weight on the sail or hold the sail down. it is optional.
If you don't have eyelets for reefing in the sail take it to a sailmaker and get some. I promise it will be your best ever investment.

The series of eyelets may be repeated up to 4 more times on an ocean racer until more than half the sail is lost. On a small boat if you are a beginner one reef should be enough. If you need any more you should be home. You don't say where you are located. If you are in the UK good luck with the weather but if you are in Oz summer is a coming. Certainly here the sea breezes that spring up about 2 PM can be very strong on an otherwise nice day so be prepared.
good luck. PM me if you wish. I am full of it (B****t) that is. olewill

 

[Lakesailor]

I've not had a smaller older boat that will sail at all well on one sail alone. Perhaps it works on your bigger headsail driven boats?

I'm assuming that CaptainBob has a smaller older boat as he has boom-roller reefing and a claw.

 

[CaptainBob]

You're assuming correctly.

OK. Conclusion is that I need to convert to slab reefing at my earliest convenience... and until I'm in a position to do that, a triangle of sail cloth with an attachment point can be used as a temporary, but not incredibly effective, patch.

Converting to slab reefing then... what exactly is involved? And what are the likely costs?

 

[damo]

I converted to slab reefing last year, and would HATE to go back to roller reefing. I made the reefing gear myself from a st/st plate bolted on the side of the boom, with 3 blocks screwed on at the relevant positions, and a triple jammer. Another small plate further forward carries a couple of cleats and a bag for the reefing lines. If I could have found the plate in a scrappies the whole lot would have been about £70.

Bartons make a conversion kit with adjustable cheek blocks which most chandleries will stock.

Slab reefing is a hugely better in terms of sail setting and ease of use.

 

[Avocet]

I agree! When our roller furling gear at the gooseneck pack up, I converted to slab reefing and it absolutely transformed the boat's performance to windward!

 

[William_H]

High Jeff. I understand your boat has a masthead rig. ie large jib and small to mid sized mainsail. Westerly Centaur
Yes it may well sail ok on just a jib or just the mainsail but certainly better to windward with both.
The most important thing is to get out your smaller jib for stronger winds or get used to the roller reefing of the jib.

Now for reefing of the main. Firstly you need a sail with the reefing points (eyelets) one deep reef or 2 reef lines should be ok.
If you then set the reef up as described with cord around boom mast etc. You will find the correct position for the reefing line bloc on the boom. You don't need a track and adjustable pulley blocks.
The rope for the clew (back end) will come from the front of the boom along the side or bottom through a pulley mounted on the side of the boom then to the reefing eyelet and back to the boom to a saddle to tie it to. (or under the boom back to tie onto the pulley block) Now the pulley needs to be located so the rope goes from a point aft of the sail eyelet to the eyelet then back to apoint aft of the eyelet so that the rope pulls the sail both down and back. ie about 45degrees to horizontal. As described earlier to get an aft p[ull to flatten the foot and a down pull to counteract te mainsail pull.
If the pulley is to far forward you won't get enough aft pull to stretch the foot. If it is too far aft then the eyelet and sail will lift above the boom (or the boom pulls away from the sail) when you crank on the main sheet tight.
At the front end you may have a horn to fit the eyelet over. My system is very similar to the system on the back of the boom. I have a pulley mounted flat on the side of the mast. and a saddle for the other end of the rope to tie to. The pulley and saddle are mounted well forward from the back of the mast and below the gooseneck.
Such that when reefed the tack (front) rope pulls at 45degrees to horizontal. ie both down and forward. Forward to counteract the pull aft at the back end and down to counteract the halyard tension.

If you just pull the tack eyelet down as many do they rely on the sail in the track to provide attachment in the forward direction. So you see the luff being pulled aft by the back end of the reef and the luff gets out of line causing wrinkles.
These 2 ropes need to go to cleats either down low on the mast for the front one and forward on the boom for the back rope. or better still go through turning pulleys at the base of the mast to go right back to the cockpit to winches and or cleats.
good luck olewill