smeaks
Well-Known Member
When using in mast furling how is the function of the batters accommodated? And do you have to compromise on sailing performance?
Roller main in mast furling and performance
- Thread starter smeaks
- Start date
B&M
Well-Known Member
Most in mast mains have no battens and as a consequence the shape of the sail and performance is considerably compromised. There has beeen a move to improve performance by fitting vertical battens but there is a considerable cost to the pocket. Most in mast sails are 20-30% less in area due to their triangular shape and lack of roach.
cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
Reduction in the area is not 20-30% but around 10%. I am talking out of experience as I was getting quotations a couple of years ago. Performance "considerably" compromise? I don't know about considerably but yes definately less performance. And it's not just due to the reduction of the area but the lack of roach. A triangle is not the best shape for performance. However, you need to think it's unlimited ability to reef any part of that area and how easy it is. Let the boat heel more with associated reduction in speed or just furl a little bit and then unfurl?
For racing with full crew a classic mainsail with roach will always be better for performance.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
It is a trade off between outright performance and convenience. In practice for "normal" cruising the difference in passage times is less than you might think. The loss in outright performance is compensated by the easy ability to match sail area to conditions. In mast furling is dominant now in new cruising boats, partly for ease of handling and partly because it makes it easier to get the best out of the boat for little effort - useful with a small crew.
lw395
Well-Known Member
One issue is that if your boat was designed for a conventional rig, the balance may be wrong with a smaller, less efficient main.
This may affect the windward ability more than the decrease in power would suggest.
This may affect the windward ability more than the decrease in power would suggest.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Compromise is a non-quantitative word. Yes, a little less performance, but are you able to notice it?
You can have as much roach as your backstay will allow. Our boat has vertical battens with inmast and there is very little difference in performance from similar boats with slab reefed horizontal battens.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50355907@N07/4636073852
You can have as much roach as your backstay will allow. Our boat has vertical battens with inmast and there is very little difference in performance from similar boats with slab reefed horizontal battens.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50355907@N07/4636073852
Seajet
...
I'm afraid it will be a cold day in hell before I ever fit in-mast reefing ( if with a larger boat than I now have ) as if anything goes wrong one is even more stuffed than when a roller headsail plays up !
There is also the secondary consideration that it adds weight aloft, and keeps it there when reefed unlike conventional slab on boom reefing.
There is also the secondary consideration that it adds weight aloft, and keeps it there when reefed unlike conventional slab on boom reefing.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I agree with these thoughts, but when I see the cruising boats with roller mains sailing, when those with conventional mains can't be bothered to take the cover off, I see the other side of it.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Neither of those things are anywhere near the problem you think they are. If the rig is designed for furling main in the first place, the mast section will be smaller - it is the "add on" systems that add weight aloft. The stability figures on my boat are the same with or without in mast. The maximum sail area is slightly less because of the lack of roach, but the usable sail area is little different except in very light airs. On the rare occasions of a jam, it is usually when getting the sail out rather than in - mostly caused by poor furling. Once you understand how to use the equipment (not difficult even for a numpty like me) the so called problems mostly go away, leaving you to enjoy the benefits.
The great thing is that it enables a fair sized boat to be handled easily by a short or singlehanded crew. Many of us find the small loss in performance at the margins worth it for the benefits gained.
Bit like oysters - you know you don't like them - until you try them!
Vara
Well-Known Member
I was a died in the wool anti inmast, till I bought a boat with it as a retrofit.
After 3 seasons I wouldn't go back, for short handed sailing it is an absolute boon, so much less hassle, with a vertically battened sail I lose less than 10% of area. Deploying main takes about 20 secs, a reef about 10.
Very difficult to do a direct comparison but I don't think my avge passage time has been compromised.
The best thing is the lines on pontoon/cracking a beer open time is now less than a minute with no bloody sail covers, zips or ties to mess about with.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>Yes, a little less performance, but are you able to notice it?
We've sailed a number of the same make/type charter yachts 80% of them with slab reefing and 20% in mast furling. The drop in performandce with in mast furling is very noticeable due to the flat sail and thus little or no lift. We also had the in mast furling jam on a Jeanneau 52, not a pleasant experience. It wasn't a jam as such something broke at the top of the furler we and had to call out an engineer from the base in Antigua. I wouldn't recommend it.
We've sailed a number of the same make/type charter yachts 80% of them with slab reefing and 20% in mast furling. The drop in performandce with in mast furling is very noticeable due to the flat sail and thus little or no lift. We also had the in mast furling jam on a Jeanneau 52, not a pleasant experience. It wasn't a jam as such something broke at the top of the furler we and had to call out an engineer from the base in Antigua. I wouldn't recommend it.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
I can see that worn out flat sails on an old charter boat might not be to your liking.
However, with custom built high quality properly shaped sails I can assure you things are very different.
Seajet
...
Tranona,
I've tried oysters and like them...
Vara,
yours is the best argument I've seen so far, the bloody boom cover is the bane of my life...however I'll stick with my ball bearing slab reefing system, and worry about in-mast or not when in a position to consider a Rustler 44 or if I'm slumming it a Mystery; no, thinking about it, I couldn't inflict that on as pretty a boat as a Mystery, just call me a luddite.
I've tried oysters and like them...
Vara,
yours is the best argument I've seen so far, the bloody boom cover is the bane of my life...however I'll stick with my ball bearing slab reefing system, and worry about in-mast or not when in a position to consider a Rustler 44 or if I'm slumming it a Mystery; no, thinking about it, I couldn't inflict that on as pretty a boat as a Mystery, just call me a luddite.
kevink 6771
Active Member
So if in mast reefing is such a potential problem with jamming etc, what about main reefing out of the mast?
i'm wondering myself if its worth keeping my sailspar main reefing, as opposed to being with this method?
Is boom reefing still considered the way forward?
i'm wondering myself if its worth keeping my sailspar main reefing, as opposed to being with this method?
Is boom reefing still considered the way forward?
dslittle
Well-Known Member
A couple of weeks ago we were sailing to the Solent two handed and nicely reefed with our in mast furling at 9.5kn SOG on our 45'. It was all ery comfortable and we were happy with that for passage making. Oh and the sails came in easily when we arrived... Good enough for me.
Seajet
...
Well, it is by me.
I know one doesn't usually leave the sails up / out but for illustrative purposes, I'll just point out that the 'row away factor' is supposed to be where one gazes lovingly at one's jaunty vessel, not scuttling ashore quick in case someone sees what you've done to her looks !
No roach and vertical battens just looks wrong; you'll be telling me you get robots to steer your boats next.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Well, you are part way there - you just have to go the next step and experience the benefits of in mast furling and then maybe you will be like many others who would never go back.
What you all seem to forget is that battened sails are relatively modern ideas, brought on to deal with the shortcomings of triangular shaped sails rather than proper loose footed, roachless gaff sails!
Seajet
...
Tranona,
there's more chance of me sailing over the horizon with Elle McPherson and Pans' People ( in 1970's condition ) than me going to the dark side of in-mast perversions !
there's more chance of me sailing over the horizon with Elle McPherson and Pans' People ( in 1970's condition ) than me going to the dark side of in-mast perversions !
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
The latest Rustler 44 which was launched a few weeks ago has in boom furling. Seems to work very well and no extra weight aloft of course.
Looks stunning.
http://www.rustleryachts.com/rustler-news.php
billcowan
Well-Known Member
not to mention the ability of in mast, or in my case retrofitted on mast furling, to be able to put sail away while still going down wind (under certain circumstances)
Mine is the full vertical batten 'Maxi Roach' type. not having to leave the cockpit is really handy at times.
Jamming has not been a problem, but if its very windy there is a tendency for it to get 'over wound' and jam. To avoid this you must wing it in a bit at a time and let it flog a little.
Mine is the full vertical batten 'Maxi Roach' type. not having to leave the cockpit is really handy at times.
Jamming has not been a problem, but if its very windy there is a tendency for it to get 'over wound' and jam. To avoid this you must wing it in a bit at a time and let it flog a little.