Roller Genoa - x-cut vs radial

[Twister_Ken]

It used to be said that only cross-cut sails worked well as roller genoas. But increasingly bi-radial and tri-radial roller genoas are being seen (tri-rad seems to be works fit on new Najads, for example).

I’m in the market for a new genoa. Out of four sailmakers I’ve talked to two have said x-cut, one has said bi-rad and one tri-rad. (although both of the latter are happy to make x-cut instead). Both the radial lofts suggest a different sailcloth than std x-cut dacron, but interestingly, not the same cloth (Polyant Strong Warp and Contender ACL respectively).

My priorities are (roughly in order)
Longevity, while holding a good shape through its life (present Hoods x-cut has some life left but is now a sack)
Performance in the range 5 -20 kts apparent
Cost (Iindigo has a small rig, so whatever the choice, the difference is only going to be the equivalent of a couple of trips to a decent restaurant).

Anybody else out there had to think about a new genny, lately? If so, what did you do, and how pleased are you with the result?

Thanks in advance.

 

[vyv_cox]

Ken,

I seem to recall posting on this "elsewhere". See my contribution there. I have a Hood Vectran cross-cut genoa, two years old, excellent. Sets surprisingly well even with lots of turns on it and un-reefed has a superb shape.

Hood were very open about the cut - they would happily sell me a bi-radial (as I recall not a tri-radial in Vectran) at a higher price, but said I would be wasting my money. The cloth is so stable that stretch is almost non-existent, even across the warp (or is it the weft?)

Vyv

 

[jamesjermain]

My experience too

I got the same answers when I bought a new roller genny a few years ago.

Sailmakers were happy to build me a bi ot tri-radial for extra but all bar one said that, unless I was going to use it for semi-serious racing the extra cost was not worth it.

In cruising terms a cross cut genny is stronger, lasts longer and holds its shape better, particularly if you include a foam luff.

In the end I went to Sobstad a) on price and b) on location (they are 100m from the boat). They also quoted for a heavier sail cloth than others for the same price.

The sail has performed well and lasted too, though the sacrificial strip needs replacing this year after five years. In retrospect, I should have specified a larger sail than the 120 per cent I went for but that was my mistake.

JJ

 

[cgull]

I am thinking about a lighter genoa for my Jag 24,to use downwind with pole,had assumed I would need a hanked on sail in lieu of existing roller furling,which i suppose means removing,or an additional halyard. Or a new lightweight sail would fit existing roller track. Existing sails are Penrose.
Any suggestions......

 

[Twister_Ken]

Standard solution to that problem would be a cruising chute or a spinny, which you can pretty much buy off the shelf.

 

[bedouin]

For light wind you can always set the sail flying (i.e. not attached to the forestay at all). As mentioned above, spinnakers or cruising chutes are ideal for downwind work - and don't always need a pole.

I also have a very nice 'gennaker' (other sailmakers call it different things) that is essentially a light-airs genoa. About 180%, made of spinnaker cloth with a spectra luff rope. That is set flying on the spinnaker halyard and covers close-hauled to beam-reach.

If you only have one halyard then this is not really an option - you shouldn't use a genoa halyard to set a sail flying as it is not designed to take a sidewards pull. Any sailmaker should be able to make you a light-airs genoa to fit your existing furler.

 

[jamesjermain]

I agree with the two previous posts - forget a genoa, go for a genniker, which is a sort of full cut, large, light genoa with a wire or rope luff which can be set flying. They are usually tri-radial cut and can handle wind directions from 60 to 140 degrees or so - up to 40 degrees in light airs. Don't try to fly one with the wind forward of the beam unless it is Force 4 or less.

Setting a gennicker is pretty simple but you might like to add a gadget I had great success with recently, which is an endless line furling drum. In this way the whole thing can be set up and hoisted and only set when everything is under control and ready. Similarly, when dousing it, you avoid the acres of sail lying on deck and threatening to go under the boat. On a Jag 24 you would only need a small roller which would not be expensive

JJ

 

[Twister_Ken]

Have talked with Hood and they are quoting for both x-cut and 'star cruiser' in Dacron and Vectran. Had to twist their arm a bit on the Vectran, though, they do it either in 4 oz or 6 oz and thought one might be too light, the other too heavy.

 

[vyv_cox]

What's a 'Star cruiser"? New one to me. Sounds like there might be a lot of stitching!

 

[Twister_Ken]

posh name for bi-radial

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: Cut

Are you going to get it cut so that for any degree of deployment, you don’t have to adjust the track roller? I don’t know the technical name for this, but my furling genoa seems to be cut in this way, and it seems to work very well, especially if short handed.
Any other views on this cut?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Cut

I've always thought the sheet lead had to adjusted as the sail was rolled. Sometimes I've even done it.

If there's a cut that maintains a constant sheeting angle as the sail is furled tell me more.

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: Andle of dangle

If the angle (track roller, clew, foot) = 90 degrees when furled, then as the sail is deployed the angle will remain at 90 degrees.
I won't say that geometry is my strong point, but I reckon that’s right

 

[bedouin]

Re: Cut

Depends really on the height of the clew above the deck.

On a large No.1 the foot will run pretty close to the deck, so the cars will need adjusting whenever you roll a bit away (or even change your point of sailing). What a pain. My No2 Genoa, which is my preferred cruising sail, has a much higher cut foot that means that the sheeting position doesn't need to change so much as you roll a bit away (the No 3 is even better - almost like a yankee).

Other advantages with the higher foot is that it seems to keep its shape better when furled and you can see under it - so I can spot other boats before I hit them!