Roller furling - the work of the Devil?

[Searush]

I used to have an old genny converted from hanks to RR (did it myself) and it had no anti-UV strip, so that was removed at the end of each "holiday" & stored below. Then I bought a purpose made RR genny withsun strip & luff padding. It is a lovely sail, but bigger than my old one & more effort to put on/off so it stays up all season.

I quite often leave the boat in over winter, but remove all sails to protect them. This means that when I get a chance for a winter outing I end up motoring, so this year, I left all the sails up so I could enjoy the odd winter sail. And I haven't been able to make a single opportunity to take her out at all!! Now isn't that just like life in general!!

I haven't even been able to start the season earlier since doing in my achilles this year!

 

[ChrisE]

I just wonder if the poll was altered to say "How many people with boats over 30' think that rf is the work of the devil?" then they'd be few who'd agree.

One of the *joys* of this forum is that we all have different sized boats and what is sensible on a big boat might be over engineering on a small one. The loadings are so different that some things just don't work/ are downright dangerous on different sizes of boat.

Perhaps we should preface out thoughts with I've a bigun (I've got loads of money so can afford a ship) or I'm small but perfectly formed (I made mine out of toilet rolls and sellotape)

 

[jordanbasset]

One of the disadvantages of hanked on sails for me is that I can be lazy. If I am sailing and the wind drops and I think I should change the genny, I would probably leave it longer to do it than if I had a furling system. With the latter it is the work of a few seconds and if 5 minutes later you realise you have made the wrong decision then again the work of seconds to get it back in.
Do agree the size of boats does make a big difference, may make sense on smaller boats to have hanked on sails, but even then I am not sure

 

[Searush]

It doesn't compute for me. My first boat was a 25' & the first thing I saved up for was the RR. A smaller boat has a smaller foredeck. Some trailer sailers have tiny & almost inaccessible foredecks - RR (or at least RF) would be essential for those.

Also handling big hanked sails on a big boat ceases to be a one man job - so RR again becomes the sensible option, unless you are fully crewed & racing when the marginal sailing benefit of hanked on is worth the hassle for seconds gained.

FFS, why do people race???

 

[Bru]

FFS, why do people race???

To get to the pub first? Can't think of any other good reason

 

[Evadne]

To answer the uestion posed, why ask if I haven't changed my mind: it is often interesting to hear other points of view. I think the size thing is a good point. Mirabella V was rigged alongside the quay at Empress dock, where I work and I wouldn't consider hanked on headsails for her.

People who've never seen it before don't always appreciate the advantage of the two-forestay system. You never have to unhank a sail, well almost. The next sail down is lashed to the rail, so you drop the genny, swap the halyard and sheet over then untie the sail. It depends on conditions whether you hoist the new sail before lashing the old one to the other rail. And I've only twice that I can recall had to unhank the genoa in order to fit the No 3 while underway. Once two of us on the foredeck, once with me on me on sail duty and SWMBO steering. neither was overly traumatic.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Sagging and Muffin Top

It doesn't compute for me ... A smaller boat has a smaller foredeck .... tiny & almost inaccessible foredecks .... handling big hanked sails on a big boat ceases to be a one man job .....

All good reasons for having a roller furling system and there is no doubt in my mind that these systems are great and work well.

There are also a few times that roller reefing causes the problem; a few examples off the top of my head: Quandary on Loch Ness on a windy day and his newish furling system wont furl away, the boys over on the RNLI thread who couldn't furl up their system and Elton's story. In my past I know of one sailor who's system buggered up as the wind strength increased and he cut the Genoa free with a knife, this was on an HR.

So my mental straw pole makes wonder what the MTBF would be if calculated against hours in use? No idea, but would it show that they are not as reliable as we think?

The down side of roller reefing: the ability to have full fore sail deployed in seconds while it is blowing a hoolie, having all your foresail eggs in one basket and like stack packs, they ruin the lines of otherwise graceful yachts.

If the stack pack is equivalent to Sagging, a half rolled head sail is equivalent to Muffin Top. As you can see I think these systems detract from the graceful poise of a yacht sailing along.

 

[flaming]

FFS, why do people race???

Because it's fun!

There's more than one way to enjoy the water, sometimes I like the cut and thrust of racing and the satisfaction (hopefully) of doing well, sometimes I prefer a more sedate pace.

But there's no arguing that racing is like Marmite, love or hate.

 

[Alfie168]

It usually only takes one win in the most modest of competitions to convince most people that racing a boat can be fun, but its not for everyone.

I like roller reefing on the foresail, but it does compromise sail shape if you are interested in that kind of thing. The best set sails are rarely if ever roller reefed ones

Tim

 

[prv]

The down side of roller reefing: the ability to have full fore sail deployed in seconds while it is blowing a hoolie

Seconded. When it's windy I'm always very aware that it's just that little furling line that's stopping me suddenly having full genoa deployed when I really don't want it. I've had them slip through jammers from time to time and do just that.

Not a problem on Kindred Spirit as I never reef either headsail. They're small compared to the main so most of the way up the wind, reefing the main is all that's needed and also keeps the balance right. When it is time to lose headsail, I furl the jib entirely. I've not yet been in conditions requiring less than the full staysail.

Pete

 

[johnalison]

15 years bouncing up & down on a foredeck to change sails was enough for me. The next big improvement was the padded luff and I could even sail to windward. After that came the laminate jib, which sets consistently even part-furled and gives excellent drive, though it's only 110%.

Another joy of furling for a cruiser is that you always have the right sail up and are never in a position of having to set out with too small a sail in case it blows up a bit, and our experience sailing in company with a faster non-furling boat was that we had no trouble keeping up most of the time and were often faster, through setting more sail. I maintain my furling gear carefully and the only jams I've had were from letting the spinnaker halyard get wrapped through positioning it incorrectly, but that is easily undone.

 

[Tranona]

People who've never seen it before don't always appreciate the advantage of the two-forestay system. You never have to unhank a sail, well almost. The next sail down is lashed to the rail, so you drop the genny, swap the halyard and sheet over then untie the sail. It depends on conditions whether you hoist the new sail before lashing the old one to the other rail. And I've only twice that I can recall had to unhank the genoa in order to fit the No 3 while underway. Once two of us on the foredeck, once with me on me on sail duty and SWMBO steering. neither was overly traumatic.

There is some sense in that. However in my (limited) experience twin forestays are the work of the devil. They are a poor attempt to solve a problem and OK before good roller equipment was available. However I learned to sail on a boat so equipped and we were forever trying to keep the forestays tight equally and there were always wet, redundant sails hanging around. The owner bought a rotostay as soon as he could afford it and it transformed the boat!

 

[snowleopard]

Have it and love it on the jib, Don't have it and don't want it on the main. I have the advantage that on the jib it's either set or furled, never reefed. (My first reef is furl the jib and sail on main alone but the whole rig is a bit odd).

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Love it .... have had a roller main jam in strong winds, but fortunately it jammed coming out and could be rolled back in. Main was then un-useable but genny was enough.

No more of a danger than a reefing eye ripping out, or a trip to the foredeck to recover a flogging sail and replace it with a smaller one.

Benefits outweight the risks I.M.H.O.

You can always roll a jammed genny in by sailing or motoring in circles, mains are a bit different.

 

[stav]

Have a roller genoa and think it is OK. Good for having a sail ready and useful when the family are on board. But use the detachable forestay a lot and have collected a No1 genoa, light No1 (which I would not be without), No2 the size of the roller sail but sets so much better and can give me another 5 to 7 degrees on to the wind and my favorite 100% blade. I have had this converted to piston hanks as tore the luff tape twice last year trying to hoist in 30 plus knots of wind single handed. Also a storm jib, only used once.

I like the combination of being able to set the appropriate sail but also at the end of the day have an easily used sail at the ready.

The main has three reefs with normal slab reefing.

Also while away have had the roller sail tear and have been grateful for having another working sail to set. I was wondering how many people carry a spare sail?

 

[Kelpie]

Again, another advantage (I think) of the simple Barton furling system that does not have a rigid foil.

I can lower the jib halyard and remove a rolled up head sail as it is, still rolled up, and put it inside the boat in just a minute or two.

so if I am going to leave the boat for more than a few days, or if the weather forecast looks doubtful, that's what I will do.

But, as far as I understand it, the downside of a foil-less furling system is that it cannot be used for reefing?

 

[ProDave]

But, as far as I understand it, the downside of a foil-less furling system is that it cannot be used for reefing?

Quite correct, it's a furling system, not a reefing system.

but then you can't reef a hanked on foresail, you have to go to the foredeck, take it down and raise a smaller one.

Just shows there are lots of options, all with their compromises.

 

[Poignard]

Another option is a removable bonnet on a hanked-on jib. Recommended by Larry Pardney and Ubergeekian (I think it was he who told me he had this arrangement)

I would be tempted to go for that when my Rotostay finally packs up.

I regard furling headsails in the same way as I do electric window winders in cars - a great convenience but a bloody nuisance if they go wrong. (I remember once having to pay the Dartford tunnel toll through the back window ).

 

[BurnitBlue]

What problems are possible on a Roller system via a foil? This thread identifies just two. A riding turn on the drum, and a halyard wrap. What is a halyard wrap please, and how can it happen or be prevented?

Is it when the roller bearing "egg" that hoists the sail jams on the foil so that when the foil is rotated to pull out the sail it takes the halyard with it. If this is so it sounds catastrophic and impossible to correct without climbing the mast.

I have always used hanked on sails. On two previous boats I removed the roller gear already installed. However, I have just bought another boat last month which, again, has roller gear installed. I have decided to keep this system.

Walking round the hard-standing where masts are stored I noticed that three of the gears had their forestay untwisted at the top so much that it looked like a bird cage. I wonder what caused that.

 

[Seajet]

you can't reef a hanked on foresail,

This is direct from the 'Well Actually' dept...

In the 1970-80's it was common to have a reef row of cringles in headsails;frankly too much of a pain to bother with compared to depowering or changing sails, BUT that's talking about well crewed, relatively small ( say around or under 30' ) boats.

Still an option however, and with a downhaul on the headsail peak, so that the sail can be removed or part lowered even if under load, one is a long way towards the benefits of roller gear, without baggy sails and an ulcer / toolkit !