Rodman 41with IPS.

[oldgit]

Return from East Coast back to civilization in the Medway.
Brisk winds against tide providing a short steep chop all the way.
80 miles 4 hours .
2500 RPM gave around 20 -21 knot cruise.
On last leg gave it some welly, not my fuel.
Short spell @ WOT gave 3000 on one engine and 3200 on the other. Max 30-31 knots.
Tanks about 60 % and water half full.
3 crew.
About right ? or .......mucky bottom perhaps.
Observations from one very short trip......................
Will we be rushing out to buy a boat with IPS. Judging by what you gain, basically bit of extra maneuverability as opposed to inevitable expence of extra maintaince and repairs. Err........probably not.
Cheaper and better to learn how to handle your boat.

 

[MapisM]

Cheaper and better to learn how to handle your boat.

You can say that again, ALSO with an IPS boat.
In fact, when (not if!!!) the joystick packs up, you are left with a boat whose maneuverability is precisely the same as a shaft boat.
And with no bow thruster, to add insult to injury.

 

[Switch]

You can say that again, ALSO with an IPS boat.
In fact, when (not if!!!) the joystick packs up, you are left with a boat whose maneuverability is precisely the same as a shaft boat.
And with no bow thruster, to add insult to injury.

Actually, it's more akin to driving a stern drive boat than a shaft drive boat. BTW bow thrusters fail as well.

 

[Richard.C]

You can say that again, ALSO with an IPS boat.
In fact, when (not if!!!) the joystick packs up, you are left with a boat whose maneuverability is precisely the same as a shaft boat.
And with no bow thruster, to add insult to injury.

Is it possible the system could fail with one pod at an angle? I would think that would be far worse than a shaft drive boat if it did.

 

[LBRodders]

basically bit of extra maneuverability

And accommodation space?

 

[Switch]

I think the pods centre themselves so you can drive with gears and steering like any stern drive boat. I don't tend to use the joystick much anyway as they are easy to drive with steering and gears buts it's nice to have when you need it. It's a great piece of kit, you need to live with it to really appreciate the system.

 

[MapisM]

Is it possible the system could fail with one pod at an angle?
I would think that would be far worse than a shaft drive boat if it did.

Agreed, that would make the boat a dead duck.
TBH, I never heard of such failure, as opposed to joystick packing up, which is fairly common.
Maybe there is some "safe mode" mechanism that whenever electronics go nuts bypass it completely and leave the pods controlled by the steering wheel only, but now I'm just guessing.
I wouldn't be shocked if what you are envisaging actually did happen to some unlucky boater, though...

 

[MapisM]

It's a great piece of kit, you need to live with it to really appreciate the system.

Having tried it several times, I fully understand what you mean, but that's also its main inherent risk.
People do get used to live with it, appreciate it, and then panic completely upon the first occasion when it doesn't work.

Not saying that you can't maneuver your boat without the joystick, mind.
What you said ref. using "normal" wheel and throttles most of the times makes a lot of sense.
But that's not what most boaters do with IPS, that's for sure.
I even witnessed a large(ish) Absolute Navetta asking the marina to come out with two ribs and push the boat in its berth, just because the joystick stopped working - go figure...

 

[Switch]

Agreed, that would make the boat a dead duck.
TBH, I never heard of such failure, as opposed to joystick packing up, which is fairly common.
Maybe there is some "safe mode" mechanism that whenever electronics go nuts bypass it completely and leave the pods controlled by the steering wheel only, but now I'm just guessing.
I wouldn't be shocked if what you are envisaging actually did happen to some unlucky boater, though...

Just as a bow thruster failure, engine failure or steering failure could affect any other boat.

 

[Switch]

Having tried it several times, I fully understand what you mean, but that's also its main inherent risk.
People do get used to live with it, appreciate it, and then panic completely upon the first occasion when it doesn't work.

Not saying that you can't maneuver your boat without the joystick, mind.
What you said ref. using "normal" wheel and throttles most of the times makes a lot of sense.
But that's not what most boaters do with IPS, that's for sure.
I even witnessed a large(ish) Absolute Navetta asking the marina to come out with two ribs and push the boat in its berth, just because the joystick stopped working - go figure...

I think you’re generalising. You are assuming that everyone who buys an I

Having tried it several times, I fully understand what you mean, but that's also its main inherent risk.
People do get used to live with it, appreciate it, and then panic completely upon the first occasion when it doesn't work.

Not saying that you can't maneuver your boat without the joystick, mind.
What you said ref. using "normal" wheel and throttles most of the times makes a lot of sense.
But that's not what most boaters do with IPS, that's for sure.
I even witnessed a large(ish) Absolute Navetta asking the marina to come out with two ribs and push the boat in its berth, just because the joystick stopped working - go figure...

I watched a large Flybridge the other day solely using his bow and stern thrusters to manoeuvre his boat not only in the marina but out side it as well. There will always be skippers who rely too much on ‘ steering aids’. You can’t just level that criticism at IPS owners.

 

[MapisM]

True, anything can fail, on a boat - and also anywhere else, for that matter.
But it doesn't take any sophisticated statistics to dismiss the IPS reliability - a walk around a boat yard is more than enough.
Not that I'm wishing you any trouble, of course!

And no, I'm not saying that IPS boats are ONLY sold to people who can't helm a boat and can't be arsed to learn.
But - and this is not just an impression, but something I learned from a VP dealer - pretty sure IPS boats are MUCH more appealing to newcomers whose major concern is to make a bad impression while docking, rather than experienced boaters.

Call it a generalization if you like, but it's a solid one.
As with any other generalizations, there are exceptions of course.

 

[Switch]

I know a few other IPS owners, none of whom have experienced joystick failures, I've also been round plenty of boat yards and I haven't seen rows of IPS powered boats in bits on the hard with damp eyed owners sobbing into their cheque books. I've been to plenty of boat shows though where most of the new boats are IPS powered . This isn't some new-fangled technology IPS has been around for 15 years. If it's so bad and so unreliable it would have gone the way of the Dodo years ago. My boat is 10 years old with 1100 hrs and I've had no joystick failures (touch wood as I type). Some people have a real downer on IPS on this forum perhaps they also bemoaned the introduction of powered steering and seat belts on cars or maybe they're just upset that the world isn't actually flat... but I can only speak of my own first hand experience as an owner with and my experience of IPS is overwhelmingly positive and I don't believe I am an exception. Let's just have a balanced view on IPS for a change please instead of this incessent scare mongering.

 

[Richard.C]

I think you’re generalising. You are assuming that everyone who buys an I

I watched a large Flybridge the other day solely using his bow and stern thrusters to manoeuvre his boat not only in the marina but out side it as well. There will always be skippers who rely too much on ‘ steering aids’. You can’t just level that criticism at IPS owners.

There's one I've seen in our marina blasting his bow thruster just to make the 90 degree turn in and out the fairway. The bow thruster even makes way more noise than both engines at idle.

 

[oldgit]

And accommodation space?

Yup .....bit more space, not that much tho , and Rodman have squeezed in that third cabin. On the plus side not lot of engine noise with the saloon door closed because the engines are not under the floor in the saloon ?
Another observation the ride was quite " lively",did not have the same solid knock down the waves feel of such boats as the old Turbo 36 ,a T43 or the Phantom 46.
Might just have been the conditions on the day.

 

[Portofino]

Keep going MapishM, the heat on the Liguria is sapping my energy

 

[MapisM]

I can only speak of my own first hand experience

FIne, we are doing exactly the same thing then.
The only difference being that I'm not an owner, and my experiences are based on first hand talks with owners.
Together with witnessing their joysticks packed up, station transfers not working, emulsionated pods oil, frictions destroyed, and other amenities.
Far from pretending that my first hand experience is worth more than yours, but if nothing else it's unbiased.
It's not like I couldn't have bought an IPS powered boat if I wanted to, you know.
As you rightly said, there's no shortage of builders who jumped on that bandwagon.

Oh, and fwiw, I began using seat belts since I started driving, 40+ years ago, well before they became mandatory.
The logic of comparing them with a technology like IPS, designed with two main purposes in mind, i.e.
- first and foremost, costs cutting, to attract builders,
- and secondly, easier control, to attract sunday boaters,
escapes me completely.
But if that makes you feel better, together with the suggestion that anyone against IPS is as mad as flat earthers, well, if you're happy we're all happy.

 

[Switch]

I merely imply that technology moves on and that some people (maybe in your age bracket) don't like new things. You can't help how you feel and you are entitled to your opinion of course. Talking of cars, I dread to think where you stand on electric cars (and yes, I have one of those aswell) I suppose you'll regail me with horror stories of exploding batteries and cancer causing glove boxes that you heard about from a salesman down the pub!!

Seriously though, I'm definitely not saying that anyone against IPS is nuts, far from it, I'm merely putting a balanced view to counter the sensationalism spouted around here. FWIW If attracting ‘Sunday boaters’ or cutting costs is a bad thing then you don’t have much of a business brain either. I think the builders need to attract as many new customers as they can so if that means offering ‘easier docking systems’ for those less experienced than you then why not?

Lastly, why don't you tell us about all the other owners you've spoken to (and witnessed) who've had problems with non IPS boats, surely you must have some great stories and tales of woe about stern drives or shafts or exploding engines?? C'mon, let's hear em??
I can't wait!!!

 

[Portofino]

I don,t think you need go through an ownership experience to some how qualify to give a view .
3 folk.Near me ....same size m same berths two French , one Eng all newbies to boats .
S / Sker portofino 47 ...pod needed replacing and the other rebuilding .+ various electrotwackerey gremlins with the joy stick and more repairs .
Azumut 43 ...submerged strike on its 2 nd week ...season ruined .InsCo and Vp wrangle over responsibility .
Sessa 43 ? All the issues Mapish M has said .

It’s just engineering first principles .Pleased it works for some , but there’s an inevitability.
Take a newbie to cornering cars ...Hmm .I think you are better with a wheel @ each corner .I just can figure it out .
All my cars tend to have 4 wheels .I Don’ t need to try a 3 or 2 wheeler ( bike ) to figure out the safety .

 

[Switch]

Well you know of three unfortunate cases. I really feel for the owners. But, it’s three. I’m sure you’re marina/yard has it’s fair share of boats with non-IPS related woes that you havent mentioned. You obviously have a major downer on IPS, you don’t trust it, that’s fair enough each to his own. As I said before though it’s here to stay and it is popular.

 

[MapisM]

If attracting ‘Sunday boaters’ or cutting costs is a bad thing then you don’t have much of a business brain either.

The reason why I'm pointing out the real reasons why many boatyards (arguably aside from the best) jumped on the IPS badwagon is PRECISELY because I see the business logic behind the marketing BS.
It just happens to be a logic that has nothing to see with what boatbuilders like boaters to think it is.

Ref. problems I came across (both personally and through other boaters) with non-IPS boats, you don't want to get me started on outdrives.
Still, I'd recommend them over IPS, anytime.
If nothing else, outdrives don't have the inherent logical fault of rotating diagonally, which is downright silly on planing hulls.
And neither they require builders to flatten the hull stern sections to install pods, which is equally (if not even more!) stupid.
But of course, you will not read that on any brochures.