rod kicker ?

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silverdawn

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HI, I need to reroute my topping lift back to the cockpit, I need new halyard, swivel block, deck fitting rope clutch, cost £90-approx. the barton rod kicker for my size boat (28ft) is £170-00,
long term is it worth the extra cost plus the added benefit knowing that the boom is always secure and one less thing to worry about when single handed.
if you have used these type rod kickers I woud welcome your advice on their performance and ease of use. many thanks.
 
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Not used the barton rod kicker, but current boat came with a posh selden one. It has been great and would never go back to a topping lift. Main reasons
* one less string to worry about
* makes reefing / unreefing much faster
* safer - avoids risk of boom dropping on heads when (not if) you drop sail without remembering to pull on topping lift

Go for it (provided enough strength for weight of boom)
 
silverdawn said:
HI, I need to reroute my topping lift back to the cockpit, I need new halyard, swivel block, deck fitting rope clutch, cost £90-approx. the barton rod kicker for my size boat (28ft) is £170-00,
long term is it worth the extra cost plus the added benefit knowing that the boom is always secure and one less thing to worry about when single handed.
if you have used these type rod kickers I woud welcome your advice on their performance and ease of use. many thanks.
Click to expand...


Hi there,

I fitted a rigid vang to my 34 foot racer not long after buying her. I went for this model (see picture) made by z-spars. cant remember exactly what it cost but it was around £200.
For my boat it transformed the mainsail handling - originally the boat had a fixed length wire topping lift, which meant catching a heavy boom and lifting it about 20" into a carbine hook. When sailing with only wife and I on board, raising or more importantly handing the main was a death defying feat. With the rigid vang its now so easy. It also dampens the motion of the boom too.. think of those days when one finds oneself rolling in a large swell without enough wind to fill the main properly - much better.

wheather it will make such a difference on a 27 footer I dont know, but it will certainly make it better. If you can afford it and cant think of anything more pressing to spend the money on: go for it!

Only one word of caution, for older masts, comercially available fittings for attaching the thing to your mast may not be available. I ended up spending an awful lot on a custom stainless swivelly bit that fixed to the casting around my keel stepped mast. So perhaps the real deciding factor for you will be what fittings are or are not available to mate a prospective unit with your spars?

if theres anything else you want to know about my installation, just ask I'll be glad to help.

enjoy!:)
 
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Used a Barton Boomstrut on my last boat. Good piece of kit, with one reservation. The boomstrut is fitted with two 'lugs' at the boom end. The lugs fit into a bracket, which is screwed to the underside of the boom. The bracket is closed at its aft end, but open at the forward end. This means that if the boom is lifted high enough the lugs fall out of the bracket and the boomstrut hits the deck (accompanied by an almighty thump). Now, when the weather's light, he boom doesn't usually lift. However, when things get a bit lively and one is reefing, the boom can do a bit of jumping about. Thats when, in my experience, the boomstrut parts company with the boom and the swearing increases in intensity.
I'd buy one again, though.
 
rod kicker

hi, many thanks for your replies, a resounding vote for rod kickers/vangs, I will be fitting one if the fittings suit my boom without the need for tailor made add-ons , a question I forgot to ask ,when raising or lowering the mainsail you would raise the topping lift to ease the sail slugs and then drop the sail is the rod kicker/vang always in the slightly elevated position to allow for this?
 
With fixed kicker dont adjust topping lift, unless it is particulary high.
Just head into wind and ease mainsheet, hoist halyard fully then sheet in.(You will then discover if topping lift was tight! )
Kicker should have kept it all level before the load goes on the sail.
 
For the opposite point of view....

The solid kicker stops you lowering the boom to the deck which is very useful when you're setting a trysail, or tying the third reef in.

With a spring loaded solid kicker it is difficult to bowse the boom down so it doesn't bounce about and sweep you overboard whilst you are stowing the mainsail. I used to take the falls of the mainsheeet and tie the boom to the guard rails to keep it steady.

The topping lift is a very useful spare main halyard.
 
It's possible to have the best of both worlds, almost. I fitted s spring-type kicker and it's great, but retained the topping lift led back to the cockpit, and there are occasions when, for example when putting in reefs when it's particularly lively, I'm very glad I kept it. Why get rid of it? Fitted with a snap shackle it can easily be released from the boom and clipped to the rail, and as Michael W says, it's nice to have a spare main halyard.,
 
barton rod kicker

I have used a barton rod kicker on my oceanis 321 for about 4 years now. well worth fitting I think it is stronger than most of the more expesive one on the market and it does not queak either it fully supports my boom and I don't use rope topper. it also makes reefing easier
silverdawn said:
HI, I need to reroute my topping lift back to the cockpit, I need new halyard, swivel block, deck fitting rope clutch, cost £90-approx. the barton rod kicker for my size boat (28ft) is £170-00,
long term is it worth the extra cost plus the added benefit knowing that the boom is always secure and one less thing to worry about when single handed.
if you have used these type rod kickers I woud welcome your advice on their performance and ease of use. many thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Got a Kemp/Selden solid kicker and a topping lift but cant really see any advantage in the kicker. Need to retain the topping lift for sail hoisting and reefing - the kicker isnt solid at the height needed, and if it were then the mainsheet wouldnt tension the sail sufficiently. Maybe it would be different with a gas spring in it but at the moment its difficult to see what it achieves.
 
My 39ft boat had a solid kicker strut with little or no gas spring and no topping lift.
It does mean the boom cannot crash to the deck or hit the winches etc when reefing.
One less string when reefing, so you have one halyard winch for the halyard, the other for the reef line, very quick. Preload both winches while the sail is still set.
The boom always drooped on the mooring. Not a real issue.
Hoisting the main you are lifting the weight of the boom at the end. Likewise putting a reef in the load is higher, but I had very good winches so not a problem.

You cannot scandalise the main, there is a limit to how high the boom can go, you need to be sure this is high enough in the event of dumping the kicker in a broach.

Ideally I would have a topping lift as well. Possibly on a multipart purchase so that it does not need a winch. After all the travel needed is only about 2ft?
 
To answer a few questions/points raised above,

reference allowing the boom to pivot up and 'dump the sail' the z spars one I have could in theory almost let the boom up to a near vertical angle. Though in my years of sailing and racing I really have never seen a need for this. And you would probably loose the stainless spring in the process!

reference lowering the boom to the deck- I absolutly agree this is necessary in heavy weather when setting trysail. I had the fitting that attaches the rodkicker to the mast custom made, its as simple as removing one clevis pin on which I use a circular spring clip not a cotter pin. 30 seconds and the thing is out of the way.

reference the rope topping lift. why does gaining a rigid vang mean you loose that? most people keep that as well for in harbour security. I still have my fixed length stainless wire topping lift. In the marina or after dropping the main in a seaway, I hook the boom into the topping lift, winch the mainsheet in hard and my boom is now rock steady as a handhold for flaking down the main.
Also, the above process is my failsafe backstay in the marina! in the past my hydraulic backstay tensioner leaked but the topping lift and mainsheet kept things in order(upright!).

the z-spars one comes supplied deliberatly way too long. You then cut one of the sections with a hacksaw (in small cuts at a time; trial and error) so the length is such that when the rope purchase on the kicker is released the spring lifts the boom + weight of flaked main enough that there is no tension in the roach of the sail.

to hoist the main I simply let off the kicker and mainsheet. put the sail up, then pull in on the kicker line-mine has its own self tailing winch, until desired tension required. Its awesome. I have so far resisted the temptation to complete the desecration and add lazy jacks but might well do so, as my main is all bolt rope luff not sliders so it goes everywhere you drop it.
 
Interesting thread this. I couldnt see how my Kemp solid kicker did anything that a normal block and tackle didnt do - and indeed it is operated by a normal block and tackle. It has no boom lifting capability so why?

Anyway, I rang selden to find out what it did. Their answer? "Nothing much". It was there for show and didnt have the gas spring because that made it cheaper for the boatbuilder. But you still need a topping lift and you operate no differently to what you would have done if the solid kicker werent there and you just had the usual tackle.

Incidentally the cost of the gas strut to do the job right is £154 plus vat.
 
michael_w said:
For the opposite point of view....

The solid kicker stops you lowering the boom to the deck which is very useful when you're setting a trysail, or tying the third reef in.

With a spring loaded solid kicker it is difficult to bowse the boom down so it doesn't bounce about and sweep you overboard whilst you are stowing the mainsail. I used to take the falls of the mainsheeet and tie the boom to the guard rails to keep it steady.

The topping lift is a very useful spare main halyard.
Click to expand...

Agree with the need to lower the boom at times. Also I have sailed on a boat with a rod kicker that kept the boom so high I (short) couldn't reach to even undo sail cover!
 
I think one of the reasons for not having a topping lift is that modern racing sails often have a bit of roach that argues with it. If it's tight it distorts the sail at the top batten, if loose it rattles about rubbing on the sail. As well 'all weight aloft is bad'.
you could use a lighter line, but some would say any halyard/etc should be plenty strong enough to hoist a fat bloke?
 
I simply don't understand the comments about still needing a topping lift with the rod kicker (other than as a spare main halyard in extremis).
Our kicker has the gas spring - and no topping lift at all.

No issues hoisting the sail - and no issues reefing either. Just release the kicker tension and the boom moves up slightly, pull tension on again when reefed.
When moored overnight attach main halyard to end of boom - partly to reduce tapping halyards, but also to ensure can fully tension mainsheet

The only disadvantage I can think of is not being able to scandalise the mainsail before sailing off anchor - but as also got windlass need engine on for this, and loose kicker normally depowers enough anyway

Rod kicker without spring may be a compromise with disadvantages of both
 
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