Rocna- what to buy instead?

[Bosun Higgs]

Piplers have agreed to take back my Rocna ( I'm impressed at the way Piplers do business) so the question is what to replace it with. Today I had a Manson Supreme side by side with the Rocna and I wasnt impressed. My last job was in steel fabrication including a galv plant and whilst my Chinese Rocna might not have been made of the steel that Rocna said it was, the Chinese welding and galvanising was definitely better quality work than the NZ work on the Manson. As far as can be told from visual inspoection of course.

In any case, the Manson was a PITA to get into the jaws of my bow roller with the shank turning on its side and being wider than the roller - jamming. So the Manson is out.

I already have a CQR and a Bruce and an ally Danforth like a Fortress. So that rules out a Fortress. I suppose a Spade is the best alternative but the cost is silly - double a Rocna near enough which in turn is double a Kobra.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Delta? It self launches.

 

[G12]

What to buy instead? For me that would be a Spade. I won't be buying one yet but have budgeted for it when the time comes.
I also have a danforth as a kedge.

 

[youen]

Is there on this forum anybody unhappy with a Spade.If this anchor seems the best and at this moment everybody is happy with it,if you compare the price of the anchor which is a fundamental part of the security of our boat and the price of the boat and you can afford it, perhaps the choice is made...

 

[snooks]

My spade has only dragged once, but I was anchoring in a spot that wasn't the recognised anchorage. In 6m we had 40m of chain, the boat next to us had 60m of chain and an anchor watch. We dragged about 70 meters during the night, as did the boat next to us, they set an anchor watch all night, we didn't. It was clear to hear we were dragging, but a quick check out of the forehatch confirmed we were still safe. We were getting 50 knots gusts in different directions. We laid the anchor to the south, and for the rest of the night the wind came from the NE.

I know if the anchor doesn't take on the first drop that the pilot book is right and holding is not good.

The Spade, and any anchor, is only as good as the person setting it. But as I've said a few times on here, by staying off buoys and out of marinas it paid for itself in the first year.

I have no doubts about my Spade, I do however doubt my choice of anchorage

 

[noelex]

What about a Rocna, but one size up. Even on the most pessimistic view of the new steel the thicker shank of a larger anchor will be stronger.
Some of the bending force on the shank is related to the size of the anchor, but a lot is dependent on boat weight windlass strength etc.
The bottom line is I think you are less likely to bend the shank of the larger anchor even if there is a slight drop in the steel strength.
As a bonus you will get better holding.
On most boats the chain is much heavier than the anchor so the small weight increase of a larger anchor has less of an impact on the total weight than you might imagine.

 

[Conachair]

Delta? It self launches.

But according to forums rocnas are the only anchors that bend!

Though even the mighty google doesn't come up with many pics of bent anchors, so maybe it isn't the even of civilisation after all.

 

[Litotes]

I suspect that the main benefit of the "modern" anchors is that they are idiot proof and the adverse comments about the CQR are more a reflection of the commentators competence than the anchor.

"What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed!"

Somewhere else amongst these threads I read that the CQR is "not fit for purpose". Well, I can only speak from my own experience...

When young, I worked in big yachts sailing all over Europe. They had big CQRs and I don't recall any problems with dragging or having to re-set. We always set an anchor watch, but mostly they had little to do.

Then I sailed lots of charter yachts and also my own 22 foot wooden gaffer. All CQRs. No problems.

For the past 35 years I have sailed a heavy 32 foot ketch with a 35lb CQR, mostly on the east coast (and, yes, the CQR does well in mud) but also up and down the North Sea and English Channel. We dragged once - when we used a multiplait warp rode rather than our usual chain and it caught itself around the keel. That was in a steady 6 in the Pyefleet, a place all east coasters will know.

We rarely visit marinas or pick up moorings - we anchor. No, I don't have to re-set it when the tide turns or get up regularly to check our position. We sleep soundly at night.

 

[Robin]

But according to forums rocnas are the only anchors that bend!

Though even the mighty google doesn't come up with many pics of bent anchors, so maybe it isn't the even of civilisation after all.

What was the story behind that bent shank, do you know please? Was it perhaps trapped in rocks or under old chain and the damage done in getting it free or what? I would have thought that the anchor would have dragged or broken out of any normal situation before a side strain (which it surely had to be) would bend the shank.

One thing is sure, Deltas are guaranteed for life so the owner gets a new one free!

I once saw a genuine CQR with a bent shank. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, it was bent on a delivery trip........by road, when the boat transporter crashed, the anchor was on the bow of the boat and I was told hit a bridge.

 

[Conachair]

What was the story behind that bent shank, do you know please? Was it perhaps trapped in rocks or under old chain and the damage done in getting it free or what? I would have thought that the anchor would have dragged or broken out of any normal situation before a side strain (which it surely had to be) would bend the shank.

No idea what happened. Guess would be the same, jammed in a rock crevice or something similar. Put a hefty side load on any anchor shank and it will bend.

One thing is sure, Deltas are guaranteed for life so the owner gets a new one free!

Are you completely sure about that?

All Delta anchors are "guaranteed for life against breakage". Lloyd's Test Certification is available for individual Delta anchors by arrangement.

**Damage by deformation or bending is not covered by this guarantee.

http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=8743&lid=23571


They do seem pretty popular though so can't be that bad. Hope so, I've got one as a spare that I haven't even used yet

 

[Robin]

Thanks, I hadn't seen that Lewmar smallprint! The CQR on the transporter was actually repaired by Simpson Lawrence (pre-Lewmar) who I believe put the shank back on the drop forging doodah to straighten it.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

What about a Rocna, but one size up. Even on the most pessimistic view of the new steel the thicker shank of a larger anchor will be stronger.
Some of the bending force on the shank is related to the size of the anchor, but a lot is dependent on boat weight windlass strength etc.
The bottom line is I think you are less likely to bend the shank of the larger anchor even if there is a slight drop in the steel strength.
As a bonus you will get better holding.
On most boats the chain is much heavier than the anchor so the small weight increase of a larger anchor has less of an impact on the total weight than you might imagine.

Its a possible solution. Any anchor can bend and deform and that includes the Manson, the Spade, and the Fortress - its just a matter of the circumstances. My CQR is already slightly bent. The issue for me with the Rocna was the mis-selling of it so if I can feel confident in the new Canadian operation then its still a possibility..

 

[noelex]

I have heard of a few Delta shanks bending Not surprising, as they are probably the most common anchor around here.
A friend bent one recently. They have a great blog, but it is in French.



http://www.lepetitmondedetroll.fr/janvier20092/index.html

 

[Polux]

I am among the ones that think that a price of an anchor, even a Spade is small comparing wit the price of the boat, so I would but again Spade for my next boat. I have used one for seven years with good results. I mean, there was sometimes where I saw almost everybody else dragging around me, while I stayed put.

In what regards performance all known brands, including CQR and Bruce perform relatively well, but modern designs just have an holding power 3 times bigger and they set more quickly. If you need that extra performance is just up to you, but if you stay at anchor a lot, I would say that one of the new ones have advantages.

For the many tests I have read, the Spade, the Mason and the Rocna set very well and the Rocna and the Spade have a bit more holding power than the Mason that, nevertheless has an holding power several times bigger than older anchors.

Of course there are the substandard steel Rocna issue, so I would be careful to buy one at this moment.

For the ones that want a less expensive anchor, Kobra II are very good. I have used one this summer and I was impressed. Testing confirms their qualities.

The same manufacturer that makes the Spade is launching two new anchors at half the Spade price. One of them resembles a mixture of a Spade with a Rocna. I did not saw any testings yet but I see no reason for not working correctly.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

In what regards performance all known brands, including CQR and Bruce perform relatively well, but modern designs just have an holding power 3 times bigger

I've read a lot of anchor tests but I still cant believe that. What is the difference between an ally Danforth ( the Fortress) and a traditional steel Danforth with the same fluke area? And why should a Rocna hold better than say a Delta with the same blade cross sectional area. In the end, the resistance depends on how much mud / sand etc you have to shift as the anchor drags.

I suspect I can answer for the Fortress because most people think in terms of anchor weight and whilst they use a lighter Fortress than they would a Danforth it still has a bigger fluke area.

 

[charles_reed]

I bought 9 years ago, some of the last chain produced in UK by Bradney's - despite about 23000 hrs use the galvanising (done in the W Midlands) is still fine.
The Delta, though it's had 10% if the use of the CQR is still galvanised OK.
The CQR, on the other hand, lost covering on the wear points (Point & centre ridge and edges of flukes) within 3 years.

If I was to change anchors it would be for a Bugel, never one of the overpriced, over-hyped patent anchors.

 

[charles_reed]

I've read a lot of anchor tests but I still cant believe that. What is the difference between an ally Danforth ( the Fortress) and a traditional steel Danforth with the same fluke area? And why should a Rocna hold better than say a Delta with the same blade cross sectional area. In the end, the resistance depends on how much mud / sand etc you have to shift as the anchor drags.

I suspect I can answer for the Fortress because most people think in terms of anchor weight and whilst they use a lighter Fortress than they would a Danforth it still has a bigger fluke area.

As Jean-Paul the designer of the Spade used to point out holding power of any anchor is directly proportional to its fluke area. A self-evident truth.
I think the comparison by weight is what favours the alloy Danforth.
In the final analysis the anchor is only one part in a fairly complex system, of which a major factor is the competence of the user

 

[charles_reed]

"What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed!"

Somewhere else amongst these threads I read that the CQR is "not fit for purpose". Well, I can only speak from my own experience...

When young, I worked in big yachts sailing all over Europe. They had big CQRs and I don't recall any problems with dragging or having to re-set. We always set an anchor watch, but mostly they had little to do.

Then I sailed lots of charter yachts and also my own 22 foot wooden gaffer. All CQRs. No problems.

For the past 35 years I have sailed a heavy 32 foot ketch with a 35lb CQR, mostly on the east coast (and, yes, the CQR does well in mud) but also up and down the North Sea and English Channel. We dragged once - when we used a multiplait warp rode rather than our usual chain and it caught itself around the keel. That was in a steady 6 in the Pyefleet, a place all east coasters will know.

We rarely visit marinas or pick up moorings - we anchor. No, I don't have to re-set it when the tide turns or get up regularly to check our position. We sleep soundly at night.

What no-one has mentioned is the one clear advantage the CQR has over any other anchor (except perhaps a very heavy fisherman) it sets in shingle. In comparison to most of the "modern" anchors it's fluke area is lower (weight for weight) so its holding bound to be lower and it does have that horrible habit of turning on its back and waving its flukes in the air before resetting but, as Snooks infers, choice of anchorage bottom is the most critical factor.

 

[charles_reed]

What was the story behind that bent shank, do you know please? Was it perhaps trapped in rocks or under old chain and the damage done in getting it free or what? I would have thought that the anchor would have dragged or broken out of any normal situation before a side strain (which it surely had to be) would bend the shank.

One thing is sure, Deltas are guaranteed for life so the owner gets a new one free!

I once saw a genuine CQR with a bent shank. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, it was bent on a delivery trip........by road, when the boat transporter crashed, the anchor was on the bow of the boat and I was told hit a bridge.

Looking at the bending mode and the fluke-markings, I'd guess it got stuck under a ground chain and was hauled up by main force.

 

[cliff]

Depends how big your budget is. If money is no object in the search for the last 5% of holding power, Manson is a fair bet. If you want a good general purpose anchor at a fraction of the price, get a Delta.

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