Robbins Timer - Floor Veneer, cutting/gluing/trimming

[prv]

If you cut carefully with a multi tool you don't need to trim your messy cuts up afterwards

If you use the proper tool (a laminate trimmer) then you don't need to cut carefully, or perform "final adjustments and trimming" with a sanding disk, so it's far quicker and easier and the result is more accurate.

If someone doesn't have and can't afford a router, then I'm sure the manual method is perfectly acceptable. But the OP does have one, and he's very happy (see post 13) that it was the correct choice.

Perfectly reasonable to use the multi-tool for the initial oversize cut of course - possibly I caused some confusion by quoting that bit of your post instead of the bit about the laborious manual trimming. But then my main point was not about the technique as such, but the futility of giving advice on how to do the job to someone who had already done it

Pete

 

[Sailfree]

Good luck

I was hoping to re-veneer my sole boards but you cannot buy the veneer in holly/teak on its own but until I discovered this I had considered this problem.

Decided to mark holly lines on edges of 18m thick sole boards then glue a slightly oversized veneer stuck with a waterproof pva wood adhesive or a epoxy resin (I thought this would be OTT though!). This should enable me to slide the veneer to get the holy lines to line up with existing.

However at SIBS I discovered the wood veneer is only available already glued to various thickness ply sheets. I didn't like the appearance of the laminate compared with the wood veneer yet it was sill 50% of the cost of new veneered ply - so I am going to cut new veneered py 18mm boards. This will also enable me to make the edge ones a better fit. On another thread I got the good suggestion to firstly use the existing to cut a better fit MDF board and once MDF board is trimmed and perfect use that as template for new veneered boards.

Please post on how you got on (and pvr please) so that we can al learn from your experience.

 

[mattnj]

Good luck

I was hoping to re-veneer my sole boards but you cannot buy the veneer in holly/teak on its own

you can, and I have, and they deliver it in a large box as a roll, see here http://www.robbins.co.uk/pdf/Marine_Pricelist.pdf
Its about £90 for a large sheet, I needed 2.

With regards to the glue I have used Evo-stik Impact adhesive, which is what Robbins recommend, it says its "instant" which worried me, but you get about 2 mins to slide it about, which is plenty of time to line it up.

My process is this....

mark the existing board with a pencil about 1" wider than needed, rough cut out of big board with a circular saw.
trim board to final size using a bandsaw (buy one, they are amazing!)
cut a bit of laminate with scissors at least 1 strip wider on each side rough as you like.
apply impact adhesive to wood side (give you more time that if you apply to laminate)
apply laminate and line up with a 1m long steel rule (wickes) a datum will be obvious when you start on the first piece.
weigh down with a couple of bags of sand (carefull it doesn't move!)
leave overnight
whizz round with a laminate cutter in router
varnish edges and bottom

 

[SimonD]

you can, and I have, and they deliver it in a large box as a roll, see here http://www.robbins.co.uk/pdf/Marine_Pricelist.pdf
Its about £90 for a large sheet, I needed 2.

I think that's the laminate you're talking about. As far as I know, you cannot buy 'real' teak and holly veneer only. If someone knows otherwise, please let us know.

I'd like to use the laminate, but the sample I've got is not the right colour - it claims to be teak, but is too light. What's yours like in terms of a colour match?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

If you have complex curves a router with blade with guide wheel is the only practical option to trim oversize laminate, and as you say getting an exact fit is very very difficult.

+1 It will, if done carefully, create a perfect edge.

 

[pmagowan]

Another way to get really good, even clamping pressure is to use vacuum. Lay down a sheet of plastic, put your object on top (the plastic must be oversize) put a couple of pieces of string from one end to the other as a route for the vacuum, put another sheet of plastic on top and seal all the edges with double sided tape. Attach a vacuum cleaner to one end (or for better pressure a proper vacuum pump) and turn on. All the air is removed and the air pressure above clamps down on the laminate giving very even pressure.

 

[salar]

But then my main point was not about the technique as such, but the futility of giving advice on how to do the job to someone who had already done it

Pete

And the point of my posts was because many people read these - it is not a two way conversation, as demonstrated by the continued posting today. I'm wondering if you have ever laid a laminate floor? It is not the cutting that is difficult, it is getting the accurate measurements in the first place, as all the panels I had to fit (apart from the hatch) had strange angles and curves. How would you suggest templating complex shapes?

 

[salar]

I think that's the laminate you're talking about. As far as I know, you cannot buy 'real' teak and holly veneer only. If someone knows otherwise, please let us know.

I'd like to use the laminate, but the sample I've got is not the right colour - it claims to be teak, but is too light. What's yours like in terms of a colour match?

Robins do both - real teak and holly veneer, or laminate equivalent, on 6mm, 12mm etc ply. Veneer only would be too delicate on its own. Internal holly and teak veneer and laminate is similar in colour, but different to solid teak used for exteriors such as decking. When I looked at both sheets in their warehouse it was difficult to tell apart from the colour but laminate will be far more durable in the cabin. I used Permateek for the cockpit in the end. Why not stick the 6mm laminate or veneer ply on top of your current boards?

 

[Hadenough]

With 1400 grade wallpaper lining paper. Been doing it all week to line out the forepeak with ply which will be covered with vinyl. Thick enough to hold in place, thin enough to go round complex curves and shapes. Join small sections with masking tape to make up bigger panels. Keep adjusting until it is a perfect fit and then transfer shape to the ply. Worked a treat

 

[salar]

With 1400 grade wallpaper lining paper. Been doing it all week to line out the forepeak with ply which will be covered with vinyl. Thick enough to hold in place, thin enough to go round complex curves and shapes. Join small sections with masking tape to make up bigger panels. Keep adjusting until it is a perfect fit and then transfer shape to the ply. Worked a treat

That is exactly my next phase - started with parcel paper, works so far. Not easy to hold in place on the roof though.

 

[Hadenough]

That is exactly my next phase - started with parcel paper, works so far. Not easy to hold in place on the roof though.

I timber battened out the whole area for fixing so held the template paper in place with drawing pins. Another way is to punch 1"dia holes at say 9" centres in the template, cover them with gaffer tape and stick the template in place.

 

[SimonD]

Robins do both - real teak and holly veneer, or laminate equivalent, on 6mm, 12mm etc ply. Veneer only would be too delicate on its own. Internal holly and teak veneer and laminate is similar in colour, but different to solid teak used for exteriors such as decking. When I looked at both sheets in their warehouse it was difficult to tell apart from the colour but laminate will be far more durable in the cabin. I used Permateek for the cockpit in the end. Why not stick the 6mm laminate or veneer ply on top of your current boards?

Thanks, that's very helpful. I had assumed all teak/holly laminate was the same - perhaps not. I'll ask Robbins for a sample. To me, the appearance is fine and, as you say, far more durable. It's just the colour I have a problem with.

My plan was to stick the laminate on top of my current boards. 6mm board would be too think on top of the 12mm I've already got.

 

[salar]

Thanks, that's very helpful. I had assumed all teak/holly laminate was the same - perhaps not. I'll ask Robbins for a sample. To me, the appearance is fine and, as you say, far more durable. It's just the colour I have a problem with.

My plan was to stick the laminate on top of my current boards. 6mm board would be too think on top of the 12mm I've already got.

Here is a link to the flooring page of my refit blog to give you an idea of what I did.
http://harley25refit.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/a-new-floor.html

 

[SimonD]

Here is a link to the flooring page of my refit blog to give you an idea of what I did.
http://harley25refit.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/a-new-floor.html

Wow, that looks brilliant! I'm really impressed. When you've finished, could you pop over and make a start on mine...

The colour is certainly different to the sample I've got. I'll give Robbins a call.

 

[Sailfree]

THE FACTS

I went to the Robbins stand at SIBS.

Teak/holly wood veneer is only available stuck to marine ply (available in various thickneses)

Teak /holly laminate is available in a roll.

We looked at both at SIBS and while the laminate is good - next to the wood it looked cheap in our opinion. Wife did not hesitate - no to laminate! Hence my decision that I would have to buy new sole boards with wood teak/holly veneer.

Laminate is also comparatively expensive approx. 50% of new board price.

The real wood teak/holly veneer is stitched together on the back with some glue during manufacture and very fragile hence it needs gluing to the ply during manufacture.

Trust this helps formites understand what is/is not available and why.

 

[salar]

You need to factor in the cost and hassle of finishing teak veneer, multiple coats of a very hardwearing varnish as it will be on a floor. The laminate requires no further finishing but it is more brittle, there are now some small chips on the edge of my access panel as a result of some clumsy closing. I guess veneer would be too, but probably repairable in extreme cases. Yes it does look cheap next to real teak, but it is the finish used in most factory built boats I have looked at recently. You pays yer money etc....

 

[Sailfree]

You need to factor in the cost and hassle of finishing teak veneer, multiple coats of a very hardwearing varnish as it will be on a floor. The laminate requires no further finishing but it is more brittle, there are now some small chips on the edge of my access panel as a result of some clumsy closing. I guess veneer would be too, but probably repairable in extreme cases. Yes it does look cheap next to real teak, but it is the finish used in most factory built boats I have looked at recently. You pays yer money etc....

I agree with all your points and it would be easier if I had laminate originally but boat is 10yr old and it was still then a wood veneer so I am having a go. There is an element of pride of ownership involved as well.

We just went for an off white leather re-upholstered saloon seating and it does look good compared to the leatherette it replaced (esp as it was knackered due to 10yrs charter use!) . With large windows on a deck saloon everything is very visible and hopefully the real wood sole boards will be very visible and keep an up market appearance. I accept its a Jeanneau and not a HR but would like it to be as good as I can make it.

Good luck with your project.

An update and lessons learnt is always helpful for others.

 

[SimonD]

You need to factor in the cost and hassle of finishing teak veneer, multiple coats of a very hardwearing varnish as it will be on a floor. The laminate requires no further finishing but it is more brittle, there are now some small chips on the edge of my access panel as a result of some clumsy closing. I guess veneer would be too, but probably repairable in extreme cases. Yes it does look cheap next to real teak, but it is the finish used in most factory built boats I have looked at recently. You pays yer money etc....

Just got a sample of laminate from Robbins. I must say it looks brilliant - very realistic finish. The colour is perhaps not as 'warm' as varnished teak, but the advantages of laminate are difficult to overlook. Thanks to salar for his pointers on this.

 

[salar]

I was thinking of this thread when I was on my boat yesterday actually! Sad I know. The reason being, I had not so far registered how non-slip the laminate is. I was wearing non slip soles admitedly, but while anchored in an exposed F3 while fishing, I felt very secure walking up and down the wheelhouse. Just saying.