davedpc
Well-Known Member
Why is road diesel so much more than petrol. Around here its about10-14p a ltr. more. Have H.M.G done a deal with the transport firms and were picking up the difference?
Road Diesel at the pump
- Thread starter davedpc
- Start date
colingr
Well-Known Member
It's because a few years ago the govt encouraged us to all buy diesel as it was more fuel efficient. Then, once we all fell for the company car tax incentives, they decided that, oh dear, diesel is nasty so they slapped an extra tax on it.
Hence we are pretty much the only country where diesel is more expensive than petrol. The differential has crept up over the last few months though. It used to be 5 p, now it's 13-15p.
I suppose it is because they can. Rip off Britain, surely not.
Hence we are pretty much the only country where diesel is more expensive than petrol. The differential has crept up over the last few months though. It used to be 5 p, now it's 13-15p.
I suppose it is because they can. Rip off Britain, surely not.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Its simple. The retailers know we will pay it.
After all, its a bargain compared to £1.30/litre.
Isnt it?
After all, its a bargain compared to £1.30/litre.
Isnt it?
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
I have noticed a couple of petrol stations at 92.9ppl for oetrol, down from 94.9. Diesel has not moved...
Has anyone doen the sums of late between the greater fuel economy of diesel vs the lower cost per litre of petrol? I'm no longer certain that diesel is cheaper overall.
Has anyone doen the sums of late between the greater fuel economy of diesel vs the lower cost per litre of petrol? I'm no longer certain that diesel is cheaper overall.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly. I think I remember that when they were encouraging us to buy diesel cars it was said that the price would be pegged to unleaded. Funny how memory plays tricks on you, isn't it?
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Is our new red tax the same as DERV excluding the vat as I think its still 5% ????? if so then why do we still have to pay more for white than red, I thought we should have gone for an all white option as per abroad, but as per last weekends price figures its hardly gone up, infact its cheaper than before at MOODYS, I do wonder if our marine outltes were told to deliberately keep the prices up to us to make the November 1st hike less of a blow.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone doen the sums of late between the greater fuel economy of diesel vs the lower cost per litre of petrol? I'm no longer certain that diesel is cheaper overall.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats an interesting question, and since I am sat in an office with all the data available deceided to have a look.
Using a Toyota Verso (7 seat MPV thing) as its a midsize car, with diesel and petrol options the figures look like this for a 12,000 mile per year driver:
Diesel - 12,000 miles at 45.6mpg, fuel cost £1.07 = £1,278.38
Petrol - 12,000 miles at 36.7mpg, fuel cost £0.94 = £1,395.42
So the diesel is cheaper. If you look at it over a three year ownership cycle the diesel is £351.12 cheaper to run, plus costs £25 less each year in RFL making the total saving £426.12.
However, the diesel car does cost £1,075.00 more than the petrol varient to buy. At the moment you will get some of this back on resale, so its difficult to say how that changes things but if you assume the difference is halved after three years that means the diesel actually costs £111.38 more over three years.
Thats probably why a lot of manufacturers are currently offering diesel models for the price of petrol ones.
For higher mileage users diesel still makes sense, but for the average driver the diesel premium is actually making petrol cars (slightly) more attractive.
Has anyone doen the sums of late between the greater fuel economy of diesel vs the lower cost per litre of petrol? I'm no longer certain that diesel is cheaper overall.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats an interesting question, and since I am sat in an office with all the data available deceided to have a look.
Using a Toyota Verso (7 seat MPV thing) as its a midsize car, with diesel and petrol options the figures look like this for a 12,000 mile per year driver:
Diesel - 12,000 miles at 45.6mpg, fuel cost £1.07 = £1,278.38
Petrol - 12,000 miles at 36.7mpg, fuel cost £0.94 = £1,395.42
So the diesel is cheaper. If you look at it over a three year ownership cycle the diesel is £351.12 cheaper to run, plus costs £25 less each year in RFL making the total saving £426.12.
However, the diesel car does cost £1,075.00 more than the petrol varient to buy. At the moment you will get some of this back on resale, so its difficult to say how that changes things but if you assume the difference is halved after three years that means the diesel actually costs £111.38 more over three years.
Thats probably why a lot of manufacturers are currently offering diesel models for the price of petrol ones.
For higher mileage users diesel still makes sense, but for the average driver the diesel premium is actually making petrol cars (slightly) more attractive.
PCUK
Well-Known Member
Thank goodnes so few fell for the similar LPG con!
bendyone
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thank goodnes so few fell for the similar LPG con!
[/ QUOTE ]
Filled up with LPG yesterday 44 ppl, about 10% less mpg against petrol.
I'm happy /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Thank goodnes so few fell for the similar LPG con!
[/ QUOTE ]
Filled up with LPG yesterday 44 ppl, about 10% less mpg against petrol.
I'm happy /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Hugh Foulis
Well-Known Member
I think also its because we are a net importer of diesel/heating oil/gas oil in the winter and a net exporter of petrol.
Insufficient proportion of oil in the refineries comes out as diesel and there is an excess of petrol over demand.
HF
Insufficient proportion of oil in the refineries comes out as diesel and there is an excess of petrol over demand.
HF
Dave_Snelson
Well-Known Member
There's a garage in Helsby (nr Chester) that had me screech to a stop when I saw them selling unleaded at 78.9ppl. I pulled in to find that diesel was still at 107.9ppl. Bugger!
TrueBlue
Well-Known Member
Conspiracy theories aside
[ QUOTE ]
Why is road diesel so much more than petrol. Around here its about10-14p a ltr. more. Have H.M.G done a deal with the transport firms and were picking up the difference?
[/ QUOTE ]
Road diesel is now all ULSD in the UK.
ULSD is more expensive to refine than previous products
There is a shortage of capacity to make diesel in UK refineries
Oil companies then have to buy in (well in theory anyway) supplies from "overseas".
So DERV costs more at the pump.
Sorry, a bit boring really.....
I love my Diesel brick, but sometimes I wish I'd stayed with Petrol...
[ QUOTE ]
Why is road diesel so much more than petrol. Around here its about10-14p a ltr. more. Have H.M.G done a deal with the transport firms and were picking up the difference?
[/ QUOTE ]
Road diesel is now all ULSD in the UK.
ULSD is more expensive to refine than previous products
There is a shortage of capacity to make diesel in UK refineries
Oil companies then have to buy in (well in theory anyway) supplies from "overseas".
So DERV costs more at the pump.
Sorry, a bit boring really.....
I love my Diesel brick, but sometimes I wish I'd stayed with Petrol...
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Re: Conspiracy theories aside
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is road diesel so much more than petrol. Around here its about10-14p a ltr. more. Have H.M.G done a deal with the transport firms and were picking up the difference?
[/ QUOTE ]
Road diesel is now all ULSD in the UK.
ULSD is more expensive to refine than previous products
There is a shortage of capacity to make diesel in UK refineries
Oil companies then have to buy in (well in theory anyway) supplies from "overseas".
So DERV costs more at the pump.
Sorry, a bit boring really.....
I love my Diesel brick, but sometimes I wish I'd stayed with Petrol...
[/ QUOTE ]
Another suggestion could well be that for many purchasers of diesel it is not a discretionary purchase so the oil companies do not need to be so competitive to maintain their sales. Because most petrol is however bought by private individuals they have cut back with the high prices so they need to drop petrol prices to get the punters in.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is road diesel so much more than petrol. Around here its about10-14p a ltr. more. Have H.M.G done a deal with the transport firms and were picking up the difference?
[/ QUOTE ]
Road diesel is now all ULSD in the UK.
ULSD is more expensive to refine than previous products
There is a shortage of capacity to make diesel in UK refineries
Oil companies then have to buy in (well in theory anyway) supplies from "overseas".
So DERV costs more at the pump.
Sorry, a bit boring really.....
I love my Diesel brick, but sometimes I wish I'd stayed with Petrol...
[/ QUOTE ]
Another suggestion could well be that for many purchasers of diesel it is not a discretionary purchase so the oil companies do not need to be so competitive to maintain their sales. Because most petrol is however bought by private individuals they have cut back with the high prices so they need to drop petrol prices to get the punters in.
landlockedpirate
Well-Known Member
I did the sums of Petrol V Diesel for my last car. I use it for work and do about 30k per year. I did comparisons on VW Bora bought as a demonstrator from local dealer. Cars were same spec, but either 1.9tdi diesel or 1.6l petrol.
If you take into account the original purchase price, the extra cost of diesel servicing for this model and the higher price of diesel, the petrol version worked out 15% cheaper over the life of the car.
This only worked because I run the cars into the ground (about 150k miles and the resale at this age/milage is roughly nowt.)
But once you go above 1.6l petrol or keep the cars for less time, diesel is still cheaper.
If you take into account the original purchase price, the extra cost of diesel servicing for this model and the higher price of diesel, the petrol version worked out 15% cheaper over the life of the car.
This only worked because I run the cars into the ground (about 150k miles and the resale at this age/milage is roughly nowt.)
But once you go above 1.6l petrol or keep the cars for less time, diesel is still cheaper.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
"I run the cars into the ground (about 150k miles "
You jest of course,I will be the one buying that nicely run in VAG motor from you, putting another 100 + k on the clock before selling it on again.
You jest of course,I will be the one buying that nicely run in VAG motor from you, putting another 100 + k on the clock before selling it on again.
brianhumber
Well-Known Member
Agreed, last two cars had 200k plus after buying very cheap at 100k plus miles, it was cost of suspension etc that caused change. When I was young this was called banger motoring, but I am not bothered if my bodywork is bent - matchs my body these days.
pheran
Well-Known Member
I don't much bother about the economics. I just prefer the driving style with a powerful modern turbo-diesel. None of this 'change down a gear, rev the guts out of it' sort of thing. With the diesel, it almost doesn't matter which gear you are in, just press the pedal and feel all that glorious low-down grunt. Gotta be the right car of course. Some little 1.3 oil-burner doesn't really hack it.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
I won't have a diesel again.
The servicing costs are too high.
The servicing costs are too high.
