RNLI vs Daily Mail

[Mark-1]

If anything I think they dealt with it too lightly initially by just asking those responsible to remove the offending mugs.

Do we know that happened? It's seems likely but I don't recall seeing that stated anywhere by anyone who would know.

I suppose if that had happened the Daily Mail would headlines would be ' RNLI Perverts'

Agree.

 

[CLB]

This statement from the RNLIs response caught my eye:

Only two of our 238 lifeboat stations have seen ‘mass resignations’. Less than one percent of our 6,000 operational volunteers have been involved in the disciplinary issues you have read about in the past two years. These issues are serious and we will not stand for hard core pornography, bullying, harassment, joyriding in lifeboats, or launching a lifeboat whilst under the influence of alcohol. Or anything that doesn’t reflect our values. We are proud of our volunteers who are brave, honest men and women dedicated to saving lives and committed to acting with integrity and we owe it to them to make sure we challenge behaviour or actions that don’t meet our high standards.

The Whitby problems seem to revolve around smutty mugs, with a side order of bullying and harassment, so does this mean that there is an accusation that one of the Jersey crew took the boat out while under the influence? I hadn't seen that mentioned before, thinking the Jersey dispute was all about unauthorized launches (joyriding from the above reply). If that is the case, it somewhat changes things a little doesn't it? No one can condone taking a lifeboat out while under the influence, and in any other job I am sure the results of doing so would have been the same. If that is the case, I am surprised that the rest of the crew are so supportive.

 

[dom]

Sybarite, as I have no doubt you are aware, the liability of which you speak is the difference between two very large numbers - the assets of the fund less the present value of the scheme's liabilities. Unless a fund is pursuing a very conservative "liability matching" investment portfolio (and, from the description in the accounts, it appears that less than half of the RNLI's fund is "liability driven investments"/fixed interest) the two values do not necessarily move in line. In particular, recent years have seen dramatic falls in discount rates used to value pension fund liabilities in line with movements in Gilt yields.

Anyhow, I don't think Grumpy_o_g needs to explain anything, as it is all clearly laid out in detail in Note 11 of the accounts. (Note 14 of the 2016 version). The scheme's assets have grown steadily from £277m in 2015, to £312m in 2016, to £330m in 2017. The present value of the fund's liabilities increased massively in 2016, before dropping slightly in 2017. That increase in 2016 has nothing to do with anything the RNLI has done, nor with anything about the benefits that the members will receive in due course - it is solely down to the value of the discount rate used to present value the liabilities.

Even you can't blame the RNLI for plummeting Gilt rates.

Whilst I get, to a limited extent, your dissatisfaction with various elements of the RNLI's finances, your taking issue with its pension fund is a bit pointless. That scheme was closed to new members in 2007 and to future accrual from 2012. So, it is an historical "inheritance", in much the same way it is for most large organisations in the UK. It will continue to see large swings in the value of the net assets/liabilities for years - probably decades - to come. But none of that can be blamed on the current management.

A breath of fresh air! Amid the tedium of these RNLI Magic Wonderland threads, someone always pops up and explains something really clearly.

 

[Angele]

A breath of fresh air! Amid the tedium of these RNLI Magic Wonderland threads, someone always pops up and explains something really clearly.

It does help being a trustee of a defined benefit pension scheme. For once, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Heckler]

I think the Mail is the most vile, spiteful, hate ridden piece of bile widely available today that makes it's money by preying on the minds of the old and the weak. If I'd ran out of toilet paper I wouldn't stoop so low as to wipe my own arse with it. I often wonder if they deliberately get their facts wrong just for fun and to see how far they can push it. My mum once saved an article for me where they'd done a test on mountain bikes. The bikes were pictured with the forks on back to front...

If you don't like the RNLI, don't contribute. If you're then happy for some guy or girl to prevent you and your pride and joy from ending up on the bricks at 0300 for "free", make sure you tell them, eh? Yes, it's probably got a bit top heavy. Yes, it's probably not like the old days. Yes the "lives saved" numbers are a bit dubious. But when I hear the calls on an average weekend in the Solent, the majority of which tend to be wealthy yacht/mobo owners who have broken down/ran out of fuel/broken their steering/hurt themselves whilst engaging in a spot of yacht racing etc, I actually cringe that this is a charity...a very very first world one at that.

I thought the RNLI response was very well written indeed. I guess we'll never know what was on pornomug but I guess it was pretty serious. The RNLI is a soft target for them...and besides, you can pretty much guarantee that their average customer, Rupert Digby-Carruthers (who works in the city earning £350k, pictured here with his daughters, 16 & 17, frolicking in bikinis near Cows, Isle of White, on the deck of their wooden SunSurfer 45 which boats two 1500hp steam engines and costs 2.5m) voted for Brexit anyway so who cares if the donations dry up a bit anyway.

As you were RNLI, you'll keep receiving my "subscriptions" anyway..

Salt and Vinegar Sir?

 

[Heckler]

As usual, it seems to me another RNLI statement full of lies, half truths and exaggerations.

Richard

Indeed, and also I wonder how much they are paying him? Plus the fresh out of Uni where life has been handed to them on a plate and where every little whim is catered for persons that started this and then compounded it by taking on the second biggest newspaper in the country, well babes, welcome to the real world!

 

[Heckler]

Thank you. I will try to remember that more often before I engage in pointless exercises in trying to talk sensibly and rationally with some forumites. .

Ah but who is the one who decides something is a "pointless exercise"?

 

[Juan Twothree]

Indeed, and also I wonder how much they are paying him? Plus the fresh out of Uni where life has been handed to them on a plate and where every little whim is catered for persons that started this and then compounded it by taking on the second biggest newspaper in the country, well babes, welcome to the real world!

The RNLI staff who investigated this are certainly not "fresh out of uni". You seem to have got that straight out of the Mail.

Forget anything you've read about saucy mugs. It went much, much further than that.

 

[Juan Twothree]

This statement from the RNLIs response caught my eye:

Only two of our 238 lifeboat stations have seen ‘mass resignations’. Less than one percent of our 6,000 operational volunteers have been involved in the disciplinary issues you have read about in the past two years. These issues are serious and we will not stand for hard core pornography, bullying, harassment, joyriding in lifeboats, or launching a lifeboat whilst under the influence of alcohol. Or anything that doesn’t reflect our values. We are proud of our volunteers who are brave, honest men and women dedicated to saving lives and committed to acting with integrity and we owe it to them to make sure we challenge behaviour or actions that don’t meet our high standards.

The Whitby problems seem to revolve around smutty mugs, with a side order of bullying and harassment, so does this mean that there is an accusation that one of the Jersey crew took the boat out while under the influence? I hadn't seen that mentioned before, thinking the Jersey dispute was all about unauthorized launches (joyriding from the above reply). If that is the case, it somewhat changes things a little doesn't it? No one can condone taking a lifeboat out while under the influence, and in any other job I am sure the results of doing so would have been the same. If that is the case, I am surprised that the rest of the crew are so supportive.

I'm not aware of any allegations regarding alcohol and St. Helier lifeboat. That concerned another station that has been in the news in recent months

Nor was "joyriding" an issue there, although I believe the RNLI might have used that term in relation to an incident elsewhere.

I'm being very careful not to divulge any information that's not already in the public domain. But it's getting difficult to keep track of what is and what isn't!

 

[Heckler]

I do not believe any large employer would not take action if hard core, graphic pornography were displayed in the work place, whether on mugs or posters. Even worse with the head of another employee superimposed on it. If anything I think they dealt with it too lightly initially by just asking those responsible to remove the offending mugs.
When that offer was refused they had no choice but to take action. Otherwise the woman who was the victim here would have an open and shut case for sexual harassment and the RNLI would be responsible ( as well as the employees concerned) for failing to take action, a claim which could have been very expensive for them
I suppose if that had happened the Daily Mail would headlines would be ' RNLI Perverts'

I would like to see exactly what was on that mug before repeating the words used by the RLNI spin doctors.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Indeed, and also I wonder how much they are paying him? Plus the fresh out of Uni where life has been handed to them on a plate and where every little whim is catered for persons that started this and then compounded it by taking on the second biggest newspaper in the country, well babes, welcome to the real world!

Salt and vinegar sir?

 

[Heckler]

The RNLI staff who investigated this are certainly not "fresh out of uni". You seem to have got that straight out of the Mail.

Forget anything you've read about saucy mugs. It went much, much further than that.

And your evidence/source? Do you know something we dont?

 

[Heckler]

Salt and vinegar sir?

No chips on shoulders here dear boy!

 

[Juan Twothree]

And your evidence/source? Do you know something we dont?

Yes, lots.

The RNLI grapevine is one of the most effective means of communication known to man. Nothing stays secret for very long, sometimes much to the chagrin of RNLI management. Someone c*cks something up in Northern Scotland, and crews in the south of England know about it the same day.

Well, more or less.

Hopefully one day the full facts will come out regarding some of the recent cases, but that would depend on the crew members involved spilling the beans. As they would immediately lose all their current public support, that is never going to happen.

 

[davidlhill]

Juan Twothree

Have you signed a non-disclosure agreement with the RNLI?
If you have genuinely seen this mug why can you not describe it?

One persons hardcore pornography (my grandmother's view of Playboy) is another's merely tittilation.

 

[Babylon]

I don't think that would be fair on him, or appropriate.
.
.
.

Anyone going sailing this weekend?

 

[jordanbasset]

The RNLI said it was hard core pornography so if that was not true I think the crew involved would be lining up a solicitor to take them to the cleaners for defaming them, but even if it was 'just' a topless woman woman (especially with another employees' head superimposed on it) it would be sufficient for a sexual harassment case in an employment tribunal, especially if the management were told about it and did nothing.
Some may not like it but employment law is clear on this

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/l...nt-types-of-discrimination/sexual-harassment/
'Sexual harassment is unwanted behaviour of a sexual nature which:
violates your dignity
makes you feel intimidated, degraded or humiliated
creates a hostile or offensive environment
You don’t need to have previously objected to someone's behaviour for it to be considered unwanted.
Sexual harassment can include:
sexual comments or jokes
physical behaviour, including unwelcome sexual advances, touching and various forms of sexual assault
displaying pictures, photos or drawings of a sexual nature
sending emails with a sexual content
Example
Your employer displays a topless calendar above his desk which you find offensive. If he refuses to remove it you could take action, as this counts as sexual harassment under the Equality Act.'

 

[Blue Sunray]

You seem to have got that straight out of the Mail.

Not necessarily, he may have come up with that independently as he has repeatedly shown that he shares the the DM's views and ethos.

 

[Resolution]

A breath of fresh air! Amid the tedium of these RNLI Magic Wonderland threads, someone always pops up and explains something really clearly.

But I thought you City slicker types tried to avoid clear explanations? Mindful of a recent thread where you and some other learned gentlemen spoke in tongues at length.
Left us simple folk well behind!

But thank you also to Angele for common sense.

 

[Angele]

But I thought you City slicker types tried to avoid clear explanations? Mindful of a recent thread where you and some other learned gentlemen spoke in tongues at length.
Left us simple folk well behind!

But thank you also to Angele for common sense.

:encouragement: