RNLI and OfCom

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It was revealed on 'Look North' (Yorkshire TV) last night that the RNLI currently pay OfCom £48,000 each year to use their radios, which might be increased soon to a whopping £250,000 ! The story is also being covered by the Daily Express:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/64460/Radios-bill-may-scupper-RNLI

What a bl##dy scandal - I didn't realise the RNLI paid anything ....

If you stop and think what it would cost the government to provide an equivalent commercial rescue service (!) - I reckon the RNLI should be exempt from any form of revenue-collecting measures, including council taxes on their property and VAT on fuel.

As we know, the RNLI is funded soley by public donation - from our money on which taxes have already been paid once.

Time to lobby our MPs ??

Colin
 
Including this glorious understatement:-
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organisations with charitable aims (such as the RNLI)

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See, it's just another charity really.
 
The story might be slightly distorted. NO rescue organisation pays for the radio licence for normal maritime frequencies, including Ch0 where authorised by HMCG.
The confusion arises when organisations like the RNLI also have a suite of "private" frequencies for their own use - in effect, just like any other private mobile radio user.
I totally agree with the sentiment that charities shouldn't be charged for operational radio use, but that is not proposed. It only applies to base stations on private channels.
Considering the RNLI have more cash than they know what to do with, I don't think it's that big an issue as the frequencies concerned would have no impact on the operational effectiveness of boats on SAR missions.
 
The story might be slightly distorted. NO rescue organisation pays for the radio licence for normal maritime frequencies, including Ch0 where authorised by HMCG.
The confusion arises when organisations like the RNLI also have a suite of "private" frequencies for their own use - in effect, just like any other private mobile radio user.
I totally agree with the sentiment that charities shouldn't be charged for operational radio use, but that is not proposed. It only applies to base stations on private channels.
Considering the RNLI have more cash than they know what to do with, I don't think it's that big an issue as the frequencies concerned would have no impact on the operational effectiveness of boats on SAR missions.
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What are the 'private' frequencies they currently spend £40,000 on, used for?

Seems excessive if not for operational use.
 
Te wheels are coming off this country, its all revenue driven garbage, I'm sick of it all, when and where will it stop? Licences for every bloody thing, it'll be licences for boats and skippers next, raise some more money to be wasted by this pack of dogs! Just makes me totally sick, bunch of sponging gits! Just another bloody tax on people who can least afford it!
 
Englander I'm with you. I dont realy care to get involved in politics, but the current lot shoud realy look themselves in the mirror.

Charging the RNLI for anything tax wise is an absolute disgrace.

The governement should be ashamed of even thinking of the idea!

(Shame the governement can't run its affairs as effeciently as the RNLI, we would all be miles better off I'm sure.)
 
Why not let the RNLI make a competitive bid for the CG business and roll the whole lot together?

Stop the duplication of RNLI and CG facilities & boats and local wannabies can be absorbed or disappear. Chuck in cliff rescue and beach life guarding.

Local resorts pay for the provision of a service at a commercial rate.
Immigration and Revenue & Customs can deal with all the bad boys smuggling whatever.

The National Coast & Waterways Service can deal with the rest.
Kick the RYA into touch and let the service take over the education, testing and licensing of all boats and operators. Set the curriculum and manage the examination and certification.

If it's on the beach or in the water they deal with it.
Everything from HW to territorial boundaries is theirs to regulate, manage and keep safe.

The potential revenue stream is enough to make your eyes water!

I fell better now. I'll just go into a witness protection scheme and wait for the screams of 'heretic' /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
I think you have missed the key element here - it is not what is happening now, it is what they are proposing, and consulting on; that is to charge anybody who wants to use bits of the spectrum. Ostensibly this is to liberalise the spectum, and free up unused bits of it, a worthwhile sentiment in itself, but of course it will generate income - stacks of it.

Their consultations specifically asks "should charities be exempt?", with the implication that if not exempt, they will be charged.

A while ago, I alerted these forums that this exercise was going on, and that there was a threat to all users of the VHF and radar spectrums (spectra?). OfCom has now said that ship radio licences will not be charged for. However what happens if you are a big port operator, and are charged? Your alternatives are few, and inevitably you will have to pass this on to your customers - ships. So if you are a ship operator, and you are faced with charges in, say, Felixstowe, wouldn't you just go on by and use Rotterdam or somewhere?

For interest, the following has been circulated amongst RNLI Lifeboat stations.

"OFCOM – Administered Incentivised Pricing

The RNLI currently pays £40,000 in licence fees annually to OFCOM for the use of radio channels in our station/ boathouse radios, lifeguard radios and pager system. Under OFCOM's new pricing proposals this is set to increase by a staggering 600% to £260,000 per annum. The current fees are at a discounted rate of 50%, but the RNLI strongly maintains that our charity should not pay anything for the use of radio spectrum, which is used solely for safety and SAR purposes. Especially as we provide a first class marine rescue service, in order that the Government can meet its internationally agreed SAR obligations.

Ships' licences are not affected by this consultation and are already free of charge and we believe that there is a good case for channels used solely for safety and SAR to be made available free of charge to all users.

The RNLI is extremely concerned that OFCOM is currently looking at the way charges are applied for the use of radio spectrum and that OFCOM proposes to introduce a scheme known as Administered Incentivised Pricing which, if applied, would increase charges to users substantially and in the case of the RNLI, from £40000 per annum to over £260,000 per annum.

OFCOM have published a consultation document a summary of which can be found at:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/aip/summary/

(scroll down for the full document PDF)

Question 6 affects the RNLI and other SAR charities. If you can find the time to respond as an individual who supports charities I would be most grateful. The RNLI will respond for the RNLI as a whole and will be responding to all of the questions in the consultation.

You may like to consider answering that nobody should have to pay for any channels that are used for safety and SAR and that charities should not be charged at all for channels they use for safety, SAR, training and other operations, which contribute to the safety of the UK citizen.

I would ask that you do not simply cut and paste your response from this email as OFCOM may discard any responses that are just cut and paste.

Details on how to respond can be found at: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/aip/ "

The more people who respond, and the more who tell OfCom not to charge rescue charities (it is not just them, there are other independent lifeboat operations, plus things like mountain rescue) the more likely it is that they will take heed.
 
I see only one problem with this, I wouldnt want those retired naval pricks in Poole in charge of it all! RNLI is a great service, voluntary or otherwise despite those numpties in Poole. Ask any lifeboatman what he thinks of the "management". Waste of space and money.

Governe4ment, just leave the RNLI alone, you have no right to mess with it, it's ours the crews, the shoreside, the volunteers and all the contributors! Sod off! These buggers just make my blood boil, had enough of them

Rant over!
 
The 'consultation' also applies to radar frequencies, so those with radar fitted might one day find themselves having to put their hands in their boating pockets for that too. Interestingly it says it is consulting with 'stakeholders' then quotes the likes of the CAA and MCA as stakeholders. No mention of consulting with those that will actually pay the fees out of their own resources, and not by jacking-up user charges.

Ofcom denies this is a money making exercise, but says pricing will promote more efficient use of the radio spectrum. I say if it was doing its job properly it could achieve that through negotiation with existing and potential users and through regulation if required. But then they couldn't afford shiny offices and big bonuses.
 
A money making scheme that by there own admission (annex to full consult document) will make a whole £1.5M or so per annum - its hardly worth collecting the money, the Treasurt can p1ss that uo the wall in seconds...
 
Question: will the Police, Ambulance and Fire & Rescue services also have to pay? Shouldn't the RNLI fall into the same category?
 
If it weren't for the Human Condition your idea might work, but you forget our traits, greed, power and control.

I stopped sending money to the RNLI when they began their stooge service on the Thames and beach-guards, both of which should be financed through the local councils.

Considering that teenage berk who used to come on here and berate us for all being stupid sailors because he was a [Gregorian chant]Lifeboat Man[/Gregorian chant] do you really want them running things from top down? At least in the current climate, many coastguards still believe we are able to tie our shoelaces without regulation. From what I have seen of the recent RNLI press releases, they want far more regulation than any government would dream of... Especially scary as many new to this sport seem to think a member of staff from the local Tesco Metro with a couple of weeks training and an RNLI sweatshirt is suddenly an old hand and knows all there is to know about the sea.

You know what, 20 years ago I might have been more enthusiastic, but the demographics of seaside towns and any experience no longer required makes me far more sceptical of the new service. The RNLI was never about opportunity it was about having the best people from the town in the boat working together. So sad that the demise of our fishing and the need for weekend homes for the city types has had such an effect on many of our lifeboats.
 
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The RNLI was never about opportunity it was about having the best people from the town in the boat working together. So sad that the demise of our fishing and the need for weekend homes for the city types has had such an effect on many of our lifeboats.

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So true. The decline of the fishing industry means the local lifeboat just can't pick the strongest, bravest and most capable local seamen. They have to train up non-sailors.

I just can't see how someone who works in the local estate agent can be as capable in a big sea at night as someone who spends his entire working life in a big sea at night.

Am I right in thinking that the RNLI damages more boats during rescues these days? Or is it my imagination?

Next question - do the RNLI need bespoke boats or could they simply buy 'off the shelf' heavy weather marine rescue boats?
 
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boats and local wannabies can be absorbed or disappear.

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Can you clarify who these "local wannabies" are?

Do you perhaps mean the 50 or so independent services around the UK, who last year dealth with over 2000 calls, most of which were set up because the RNLI refused to cover esturine waters until very recently?

And perhaps you could give us further details on all these "duplication of resources" you seem to know so much about?
 
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The RNLI was never about opportunity it was about having the best people from the town in the boat working together. So sad that the demise of our fishing and the need for weekend homes for the city types has had such an effect on many of our lifeboats.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. The decline of the fishing industry means the local lifeboat just can't pick the strongest, bravest and most capable local seamen. They have to train up non-sailors.

I just can't see how someone who works in the local estate agent can be as capable in a big sea at night as someone who spends his entire working life in a big sea at night.

Am I right in thinking that the RNLI damages more boats during rescues these days? Or is it my imagination?

Next question - do the RNLI need bespoke boats or could they simply buy 'off the shelf' heavy weather marine rescue boats?

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It's difficult to hear what you are saying as it is muffled by what you are wearing round your nether regions

I think that the experience of the RNLI shows that they know what they are doing.
 
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