RNLI 2013 accounts : highlights

[Grumpybear]

To be fair, though, you've just described British economic and foreign policy for about three hundred years. We didn't object to what Napoleon was doing, we just wanted to do it more.

Have to disagree. Our leaders and people were Ok with a navy (which could do good things like abolish slavery and protect our trade) but hated the idea of a standing army even when it was confined to internal security duties at the other end of the empire. Victorian politicians loathed the traders and missionaries who went and got themselves boiled alive, to say nothing of the likes of General Gordon, resulting in tabloid pressure to go and teach the fuzzy-wuzzies a sharp lesson. They knew well that empire made individuals rich but the nation as a whole poor. By 1900 we were nearly broke and by 1918 completely skint - so we decided to start giving up our empire and blow our overdraft on social improvements instead.

 

[[70521]]

A fascinating thread, not seen a sail in sight, nor do I see it changing anything in either the RNLI or the SNSM.

 

[Resolution]

Is there a collective noun for a collection of argumentative accountants and harrumphing historians?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Is there a collective noun for a collection of argumentative accountants

Unbalanced?

An adjective though.:ambivalence:

 

[lpdsn]

Is there a collective noun for a collection of argumentative accountants and harrumphing historians?

A squabble

 

[BelleSerene]

We'll have to stick with 3:1 for the Brits, and 1:nil for the Yanks then

If we're going to be that generous someone'll be asking to add the 1917-18 war to the score as well as the 1943-45 war.

 

[DanWash]

arrrrrgh Stop talking to this TROLL!! He does this all the time. Tell you what give your boat name to the coastguard and request that they never send the lifeboat to you if you ever get into difficulties. Job done - the rest of us love the RNLI. So get lost.

 

[Iain C]

Kinda with you on that one DanWash. Do I think that possibly the RNLI do seem to have a lot of cash and posh toys? Sure. Do I think that perhaps some of the statistics are over hyped? Probably. But I'll happily continue to pay my membership and put cash in tins because as has already been pointed out if I ever need them...and I hope I never will...I can look those brave guys/girls in the eye and say thanks with a degree of integrity.

As religion somehow seems to have been dragged into this, I'll make some parallels. I'm very much in the "show me one shred of scientific evidence and I might believe you" camp. So I've never practiced any kind of religion and I do not expect some deity to arrive in a puff of smoke and dig me out of the **** should my life turn upside down. But I don't sit and start threads critising others for their own personal security blanket, regardless of my own views.

An ex colleague was Jehovah's Witness, and had a big sticker on the dashboard of his car effectively saying that if he was bleeding to death in a mangled wreck, just let him go, no blood was to be administered by paramedics. I sincerely hope the OP has a similar sign in his cockpit refusing RNLI help should it ever come to that.

So would you take a tow off a lee shore in a F8 at night from one of these over-specced lifeboats OP?

 

[Searush]

(snip)
So would you take a tow off a lee shore in a F8 at night from one of these over-specced lifeboats OP?

I'm not even sure if he has a boat or sails in UK waters.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I'm not even sure if he has a boat or sails in UK waters.

French boat. French waters
Everything is better in France.

 

[Sybarite]

Kinda with you on that one DanWash. Do I think that possibly the RNLI do seem to have a lot of cash and posh toys? Sure. Do I think that perhaps some of the statistics are over hyped? Probably. But I'll happily continue to pay my membership and put cash in tins because as has already been pointed out if I ever need them...and I hope I never will...I can look those brave guys/girls in the eye and say thanks with a degree of integrity.

As religion somehow seems to have been dragged into this, I'll make some parallels. I'm very much in the "show me one shred of scientific evidence and I might believe you" camp. So I've never practiced any kind of religion and I do not expect some deity to arrive in a puff of smoke and dig me out of the **** should my life turn upside down. But I don't sit and start threads critising others for their own personal security blanket, regardless of my own views.

An ex colleague was Jehovah's Witness, and had a big sticker on the dashboard of his car effectively saying that if he was bleeding to death in a mangled wreck, just let him go, no blood was to be administered by paramedics. I sincerely hope the OP has a similar sign in his cockpit refusing RNLI help should it ever come to that.

So would you take a tow off a lee shore in a F8 at night from one of these over-specced lifeboats OP?

It's amazing how you lot can whip yourselves into a frenzy over things which could otherwise be discussed sensibly!

And to you I would ask; how would you liked to towed off a lee shore in French waters by volunteers who are not only unpaid but have to make good the time lost to their employers, and who are backed up by a group of administrators who also volunteer their time?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

And I thought we were being told how wonderful the French system was. Now we're being told ho carp it is.

 

[Iain C]

It's amazing how you lot can whip yourselves into a frenzy over things which could otherwise be discussed sensibly!

And to you I would ask; how would you liked to towed off a lee shore in French waters by volunteers who are not only unpaid but have to make good the time lost to their employers, and who are backed up by a group of administrators who also volunteer their time?

If that's the way the French rescue services work, then yes, of course I'd take that tow. I wouldn't criticise the way that they do things over there either. I also wouldn't be worried about their employment situation either, on the basis that a) if they didn't want to be in that rescue boat, they wouldn't be there, b) if their employer had such a problem with their employees volunteering, they wouldn't let them go, and c) trust me there is a gulf in how the French look after their employees and how the English do. I worked for a multinational company which folded and whilst the French guys came away very comfortably, us Brits got nothing, not even the statutory stuff we were entitled to under our contracts. Eurocrats too busy worrying about really important stuff that matters to people such as the straightness of bananas, changing UK number plates, the luggage carrying capacity of my 49er skiff and diluting my antifouling every year to worry about making sure us workers are on a level playing field and get paid what is owed to us, obviously.

So...I've answered your question. Are you going to answer mine? Would you take a tow off the RNLI or not?

 

[Sybarite]

So...I've answered your question. Are you going to answer mine? Would you take a tow off the RNLI or not?

I think if you are asking me that question you haven't been reading what I have been posting. My point has never been about the volunteers at the sharp end. I feel that the adminstrative side has grown into what the French would call an 'usine à gaz' and have saddled themselves with a structure which is wholly dependent on a continuing stream of legacies: £118m last year for operating costs of £159m.

 

[Tranona]

have saddled themselves with a structure which is wholly dependent on a continuing stream of legacies: £118m last year for operating costs of £159m.

You really should do more to find out what is behind the "figures", rather than just picking headline numbers and placing your own interpretation on them. The RNLI has ALWAYS been dependent on legacies for a substantial portion (typically 60%+) of its income. There is no sign that this, or donations in general, is declining - indeed both are increasing in money terms and legacies in %age terms, at least in 2013. So your "wholly dependent" statement is, like most things you say, not supported by the evidence.

Of course, there is always a risk that this situation will change, and there are concerns in the charitable sector as a whole that the pattern of legacies may change in the future as the asset rich generation dies off, but this is more speculation than hard fact. However a feature of well established charities like RNLI is that they have built up effective fund raising activities both for specific campaigns and on going activity.

Would be interested in seeing your detailed analysis that supports your statement that the administrative side has grown - particularly what you would classify as "administrative" and what you would classify as "operational". No good just "feeling" these things, if you make such statements they must be supported by evidence if you expect others to take you seriously.

BTW the boat building facility is expected to save £3m a year in lower build and maintenance costs over buying in these services and has nearly 10 years planned work building new boats. Hardly a short term speculative enterprise.

 

[dom]

Would be interested in seeing your detailed analysis that supports your statement that the administrative side has grown - particularly what you would classify as "administrative" and what you would classify as "operational". No good just "feeling" these things, if you make such statements they must be supported by evidence if you expect others to take you seriously.

You know I suspect you wouldn't be that interested as I sense the OP may have exaggerated/invented much of his ever-expanding CV, including his claim to have been CFO of a household name French company, an auditor, advisor to international takeovers and running a family business.

See, I have never met an abusive CFO, or one so unable to answer simple factual questions. It is also a fact that the Executive Boards of French household name companies go out of the way to portray themselves as relaxed, open and honest - e.g. this chilled out crew comprises the executive Committee of Danone
http://finance.danone.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=95168&p=irol-govManage

Moreover, the UK is inevitably one of their largest export markets and it is often a sackable offence to insult either the institutions or culture of a big trading partner. For me the cloth doesn't fit and I get the impression I'm not alone in this view ... I will of course apologise if the OP comes up with a coherent new structure for the RNLI which addresses all, or at least most, of the questions raised in this thread.

 

[rosewood]

You've criticised the RNLI's finances in the past.

Estimates of the cash reserves alone of the Catholic Church put them at €50 billion. Add the other assets and there's a fair few bob there as well......... but as the accounts are never published we'll just have to rely on estimates.

I'm glad that the RNLI is well financed.

I'm glad the Catholic Church is doing well as a good Catholic. Although what we have to do with the RNLI I do not know

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I'm glad the Catholic Church is doing well as a good Catholic.

I've never met one who doesn't claim to be good. I've seen a bit of earnest hand wringing about "trying to be even better", but I've never heard of one who admitted to anything other than being good.
You've got to admit that there's one hell of a lot of money lying around doing no good though.

 

[Sybarite]

You know I suspect you wouldn't be that interested as I sense the OP may have exaggerated/invented much of his ever-expanding CV, including his claim to have been CFO of a household name French company, an auditor, advisor to international takeovers and running a family business.

See, I have never met an abusive CFO, or one so unable to answer simple factual questions. It is also a fact that the Executive Boards of French household name companies go out of the way to portray themselves as relaxed, open and honest - e.g. this chilled out crew comprises the executive Committee of Danone
http://finance.danone.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=95168&p=irol-govManage

Moreover, the UK is inevitably one of their largest export markets and it is often a sackable offence to insult either the institutions or culture of a big trading partner. For me the cloth doesn't fit and I get the impression I'm not alone in this view ... I will of course apologise if the OP comes up with a coherent new structure for the RNLI which addresses all, or at least most, of the questions raised in this thread.

I am not in the least bit interested in your opinion of me; I will stick with the opinions of those I know and respect. I just don't recommend you calling me a liar to my face.

The household name that I was referring to is American and is no.1 in its market. 25% of its group activity takes place in France and my department was 160 strong. The figures relate to the period when I worked for them. After working there I had a European brief from another American group.

I have asked what your credentials are. Apparently you aren't too eager to reply.

 

[Sybarite]

You really should do more to find out what is behind the "figures", rather than just picking headline numbers and placing your own interpretation on them. The RNLI has ALWAYS been dependent on legacies for a substantial portion (typically 60%+) of its income. There is no sign that this, or donations in general, is declining - indeed both are increasing in money terms and legacies in %age terms, at least in 2013. So your "wholly dependent" statement is, like most things you say, not supported by the evidence.

Of course, there is always a risk that this situation will change, and there are concerns in the charitable sector as a whole that the pattern of legacies may change in the future as the asset rich generation dies off, but this is more speculation than hard fact. However a feature of well established charities like RNLI is that they have built up effective fund raising activities both for specific campaigns and on going activity.

Would be interested in seeing your detailed analysis that supports your statement that the administrative side has grown - particularly what you would classify as "administrative" and what you would classify as "operational". No good just "feeling" these things, if you make such statements they must be supported by evidence if you expect others to take you seriously.

BTW the boat building facility is expected to save £3m a year in lower build and maintenance costs over buying in these services and has nearly 10 years planned work building new boats. Hardly a short term speculative enterprise.

One simple example gives a hint. Payroll numbers : lifeboat service 2 fewer in 2013; support and governance: plus 21.

What in lifesaving terms required an additional 21 people in the year - and this does not include the large increase in employed fund-raisers?

It's funny, I stumbled across a 2006 thread which said approximately the same thing as I said, only the criticism (of the 'fat cats' travelling everywhere first class and staying in the best of hotels ) if anything was more severe than mine. I didn't participate in that thread.