River Mersey - Dangerous Wrecks with unknown depths

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Jaguar 25

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I don't know if I am misunderstanding something or just plain ignorant, but why are there so many charted dangerous wrecks with unknown depths in the River Mersey within the buoyed channel. Some seven just near to the marina lock entrance. Surely these could have been checked by now on a river with so much traffic.

I am about to start sailing on the Mersey with a small yacht with a 0.9m draft.

Do I have anything to worry about?
 
not anything to worry about, after all, entering and leaving the lock entrance with sufficient depth to get in , the wrecks arnt a problem.. they are marked on the chart so you know not to anchor there, for fear of it getting caught in a bit left over under the mud.

take a look at the chart symbols booklet to understand the difference of the various wreck symbols,particularly the ones that show where the wreck is above the bottom surface.

These guys have published the very page you need!!!

http://www.skysailtraining.co.uk/chart_symbols_nautical_np5011.htm

enjoy !!!
 
The "dangerous /unchartered depths" really relate to commercial shipping and you have nothing to worry about-apart from the fierce tidal flow, lots of chartered shoal areas with 32ft tides...and the commercial shipping. A good learning curve in prospect methinks!
Seriously, there are so many different things going on in the estuary and on the river that the sailing experience there is pretty "distilled" compared to many, less demanding areas.
 
Thanks Dave,
However, having now got off my backside to get my paper chart, I see that the wrecks shown with the unknown depth on the Navionics free electronic chart are in fact properly marked with depths on the Admiralty derived chart. The shallowest is 0.5m above chart datum so I only need a 2.5m tide to safely pass and not many low tides are lower than this if I was having a day on the Mersey. Getting into and out of the marina lock should be no trouble whatsoever.

Free Navionics chart still very useful though (see recent posting for link).
 
Thanks for that Pete, I have Visit My Harbour chart available on my PC and indeed it is much better than the Navionics free version. Looking again at my paper chart I see the wrecks are just outside the lock are designated as non-dangerous with the bottom sitting at 0.5m above chart datum. Does this mean the wrecks are under the sea bed?
 
It's an inevitable consequence of Jerry dropping millions of tons of bombs on our docks & shipping during the last period of unpleasantness.

Nothing to worry about, besides 6 kts tides, 10-11m tides, NW'ly gales (pretty grim over a 6kt ebb) plus nowhere really worth going for the day out or a barbie on the beach & a 10 mile trip just to get out of the Queens channel.


Chart datum is an arbitrary depth selected as a measurement point, the sea bottom varies depending on where you are, so no, they probably are not below the bottom, but the bottom is probably below datum.
 
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I suggest you have a look just outside the lock, at low tide, to see just how much water has to come in to cover the lock cill, which has to be covered by 2 meters, before you can get out onto the river. The only wreck to worry about is the well bouyed one just before the Britannia pub.
 
Hi Searush, I realise the Mersey isn't everyone's cup of tea but it is very convenient as a Scouser compared to Holyhead, where we moored last year My son and I are still learning after doing the DS courses (theory and practical) last year. Only started dinghy sailing in 2005 and followed this with a trailer-sailer on Windermere for a couple of years. We aware of the fast tidal flows and never go out in more than a force 4.
 
Jaguar 25 said:
Hi Searush, I realise the Mersey isn't everyone's cup of tea but it is very convenient as a Scouser compared to Holyhead, where we moored last year My son and I are still learning after doing the DS courses (theory and practical) last year. Only started dinghy sailing in 2005 and followed this with a trailer-sailer on Windermere for a couple of years. We aware of the fast tidal flows and never go out in more than a force 4.
Click to expand...

I love the Mersey, I was raised by (& in) it, but it's hopeless for cruising. Some good racing in the area tho.

I lived on the Wirral & kept my boat at Heswall originally. It allowed to to have a few hours sailing of a nice evening, but every holiday, we were faced with a 10 hour passage to Conway (& back again at the end). Waste of time with a young family when you can drive there in 2 hours & be on holiday as soon as you get on the boat.

But do try the river for a season & come back to tell me why I'm wrong.
 
With a motorboat, that 50 mile 10hr passage that you are not so keen on (whatever happened to "getting there" being the best part??) would shrink to about 2 and a half hours, leaving you plenty of time to burble around at no-wake speeds, anchor up, relax, and get in touch with nature before dinner.

Or maybe you think you should always be battling nature for 10 hours before dinner?
 
I'm with Searush.

On Windermere (2hours from home) the tide is always good. But it's not cheap.

When I go to the Clyde (5 hours from home) the tide doesn't really matter.

North Wales, don't know, tides in and out and it's a 3 hour drive.

I wouldn't consider the Mersy.
 
Searush said:
Nothing to worry about, besides 6 kts tides, 10-11m tides, NW'ly gales (pretty grim over a 6kt ebb) plus nowhere really worth going for the day out or a barbie on the beach & a 10 mile trip just to get out of the Queens channel.
Click to expand...
Stop it you will make me feel home sick...


Jaguar 25 said:
Hi Searush, I realise the Mersey isn't everyone's cup of tea but it is very convenient as a Scouser compared to Holyhead, where we moored last year My son and I are still learning after doing the DS courses (theory and practical) last year. Only started dinghy sailing in 2005 and followed this with a trailer-sailer on Windermere for a couple of years. We aware of the fast tidal flows and never go out in more than a force 4.
Click to expand...

+1 I have to agree go for it, they where a friendly bunch...

If the tides right you will be able to go for a sail in the evenings etc pop down do some work on the boat easily. Not certain how competitive they have got in the racing but there used to be boats of your ilk having a ago. If your still inexperienced becarful but have fun.

I now sail on lake Solent, although its nice to have 3 bars an hours sail away enough small harbours to keep you in the Solent etc etc etc I do look forward to escaping to more challenging waters again...
 
If you are building your skills and experience there is undoubtedly much to learn from a season in Liverpool. With respect to those who berth there, IMHO it's not a long term base from which to cruise the NW coasts.

Many bertholders derive great pleasure from their regular HW +/- 2 sortee in the river. There's a thriving racing program and that, too will significantly enhance your skills once the competitive spirit kicks-in.

I could, of course, be talking bolox (and not for the first time) as I haven't been to Liverpool for many years. Like many NW sailors, I've had seasons in Conwy, Menai and so on and my preference remains Holyhead. On balance for my needs, its advantages outweigh its disadvantages. Round the Island, Llyn Peninsular, IoM and Dublin are all within relatively easy reach.
 
I berthed at Liverpool for 1 season and wouldn't go back. Access is extremely limited, especially at night, and day sailing is a monotonous up river-down river loop, dictated by the tide. It's also expensive considering its limitations. I've tried Holyhead, straits and Conwy - river and marina - and Conwy is the best compromise with access to the river 4 hrs either side of HW with your draft and a nice town. Worth the 90 min drive for the extra 4 hrs sailing compared to Liverpool plus plenty of places to visit for lunch or overnight stops.
 
No you dont want to be in Conway , Straits, or Holeinthehead.. Terrible places,, getting far too overcrowded now....

I reckon one year of sailing at the top of the Mersey tide will be good for the sole.....

Give you time to learn the ropes and develop a desire for fresher waters.



AND GET A BIGGER FUNBOX......

If you decide to venture towards North Wales watch out for them Pirates Of PD ....

They will raid, pillage and plunder all of your alcoholic stores before you know it.

1 year down and I am going back for more.........

After drying out all winter.

Steve
 
FlowerPower said:
With a motorboat, that 50 mile 10hr passage that you are not so keen on (whatever happened to "getting there" being the best part??) would shrink to about 2 and a half hours, leaving you plenty of time to burble around at no-wake speeds, anchor up, relax, and get in touch with nature before dinner.

Or maybe you think you should always be battling nature for 10 hours before dinner?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but you just don't get it do you? I suspect you never will & I doubt I could explain it to you, but I shall try.

The silence as the motor is switched off is the best sound in the world. The gentle heel as a breeze fills the sail & the boat surges forward & you feel the balance of the helm. The skill of balancing sail trim & helm against he variations of the wind strength & direction & your preffered course.

The 50-ish miles from Liverpool/ Heswall to Menai is a fairly boring passage with relatively little to see or do, in a sailboat it requires a decent forecast (max F5 & some West or South in the direction) plus a suitable tide flow. having to do it at the start & end of a trip puts time constraints on the planning that can result inpushing the envelope which isn't a good idea with a family crew.

And why would I want an utterly boring point & steer motorboat when I already have several cars that are just as challenging to drive? I suspect that the uncertainties of sailing from A to B are just a tad too much for you to be able to deal with, maybe you are just too used to getting your own way all the time. By the way, on a sailboat, a gentleman never battles to windward, either before or after any meal.
 
In a big motorboat, who knows: there is no upper limit, and costs can get very scary very quickly.
In a small motorboat like mine, approx £100 ?
 
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