River Hamble Break Ins

Let's leave the hoodie question for now. I recognise that although the warmth is nice in a breeze, I do always push the hood back when I go into a shop. I wonder if there's irony in the fact that Henry's Top is emblazened with the name of the law-school he attended. :rolleyes:

Seajet said:
We discuss a night shift rota after every incident, but the reality is a retired yottie is at a disadvatage against desperate scrote/s who may well have knives and may be on drugs - just not worth the risk.
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The risk of injury certainly wouldn't be worth taking, I agree. But I believe thefts from boats are largely exploratory and opportunistic. It's not likely these rats set out ready to add assault to their repertoire - they just won't go where there's human presence. Having said that, if there were any actual injury or serious confrontation, at least the police wouldn't be so dismally uninterested.

But assuming the rats take advantage of the absence of owners, the probability of a physical encounter is very unlikely. Hence I suggest owners arranging to be aboard to discourage visits. Spotlights and mobile phones are our friends, but only if they're visible.

We certainly show very little other purposeful reaction to these crimes, just disappointment with the police response.
 
A few years ago some shore side householders noticed 3 thieves on the moorings. They had stolen an inflatable. A couple of club members launched the club safety boat & caught the miscreants in the dinghy. They rang the police . Took photos of the scum.
The police said that they were too busy to attend & our members should not apprehend them, but deliver them safely to the shore & let them go. Their car was photo'd along with reg No.
The stolen items were recovered, although a wash board that had been removed & chucked overboard was not.
Our members got the impression that if they had tried anything like tipping them in the water, sticking a knife in the dinghy, or delivering them to the other side of the river & disabling the dinghy (thus leaving them with a 25 mile walk), they would have been guilty of some crime against the scum.
No action was taken by the police. The police never attended the scene & have shown no interest in the photos or interviewed our members. The dinghy still sits behind our club shed. When asked, the police said, we may as well keep the dinghy for ourselves. At no time have the police shown the slightest interest.
 
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There's a change underway in the UK and not necessarily for the better. Many of the private estates in London and the Home Counties now engage 24hr security, paid for by the residents. Big office blocks ditto. These security companies are in turn registered with the police and maintain a good working relationship with them.

In fact, the police appear to be happier when the owners of expensive assets arrange front-line security themselves and only turn to the police as a secondary backup.

The Hamble River is populated by a wide medley of vessels strung along the river. It's not easy to see how a private security option could be introduced, but perhaps something either formal or informal will ultimately be necessary if this proves to be more than a passing crime wave?
 
dom said:
There's a change underway in the UK and not necessarily for the better. Many of the private estates in London and the Home Counties now engage 24hr security, paid for by the residents. Big office blocks ditto. These security companies are in turn registered with the police and maintain a good working relationship with them.

In fact, the police appear to be happier when the owners of expensive assets arrange front-line security themselves and only turn to the police as a secondary backup.

The Hamble River is populated by a wide medley of vessels strung along the river. It's not easy to see how a private security option could be introduced, but perhaps something either formal or informal will ultimately be necessary if this proves to be more than a passing crime wave?
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It's an interesting thought, the cost per boat would be quite modest given the number of boats on the river
 
https://smartwaterinsurance.com/company-news/who-commits-crimes/

Our experience of smart water is that it is a very effective deterrent to all but the dimmest of crooks.
Perhaps a first stage is to invest in some copycat stickers as these appear to work as a deterrent to the occupational thief.
http://www.owl.co.uk/misc/public/smartwater.htm
Our insurance company paid out for the full package after repeated burglaries of phones and lap tops from student accommodation. No further burglaries since.
 
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Sadly I don't think the use of copycat stickers or even Smartwater is going to have much affect on the slashing, stabbing and vandelising morons in the latest case mentioned by Jonic.
 
Giblets said:
Sadly I don't think the use of copycat stickers or even Smartwater is going to have much affect on the slashing, stabbing and vandelising morons in the latest case mentioned by Jonic.
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Sadly, I think you're right although Stemar's idea of a 50 cal might give them cause for thought !! I've just got back from my boat and got chatting to a neighbour, he was broken into causing a fair bit of damage by the sound of it. The only thing they took was a pair of bolt cutters
 
dom said:
There's a change underway in the UK and not necessarily for the better. Many of the private estates in London and the Home Counties now engage 24hr security, paid for by the residents. Big office blocks ditto. These security companies are in turn registered with the police and maintain a good working relationship with them.

In fact, the police appear to be happier when the owners of expensive assets arrange front-line security themselves and only turn to the police as a secondary backup.

The Hamble River is populated by a wide medley of vessels strung along the river. It's not easy to see how a private security option could be introduced, but perhaps something either formal or informal will ultimately be necessary if this proves to be more than a passing crime wave?
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That's the way its going - my sister lives in a fancy London neighbourhood and I've often seen private security vans patrolling the public streets. Deterrence has to be the objective - because frankly the police aren't up to it, the courts are half closed, and the prisons are full anyway.

Having said that, what exactly is the number of break-ins/thefts from boats on the Hamble each year? If its just a small number perpetrated by the same random individuals at any given time, then its statistically insignificant and that's what insurance is for. If it increases to unacceptable levels, then its not inconceivable for the HM to raise a small levy per vessel to fund a dedicated security unit?
 
Babylon said:
That's the way its going - my sister lives in a fancy London neighbourhood and I've often seen private security vans patrolling the public streets. Deterrence has to be the objective - because frankly the police aren't up to it, the courts are half closed, and the prisons are full anyway.

Having said that, what exactly is the number of break-ins/thefts from boats on the Hamble each year? If its just a small number perpetrated by the same random individuals at any given time, then its statistically insignificant and that's what insurance is for. If it increases to unacceptable levels, then its not inconceivable for the HM to raise a small levy per vessel to fund a dedicated security unit?
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One of the major problems with this spate of break ins is that it has been concentrated to just one small area. It seems like it's probably kids hence the vandalism that has been accompanying the break ins
 
White_Belle said:
One of the major problems with this spate of break ins is that it has been concentrated to just one small area. It seems like it's probably kids hence the vandalism that has been accompanying the break ins
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At my local radio-controlled model flying club, the repurposed container housing the mower and a few old plastic chairs is impregnably locked, so the portaloo was recently broken into. Sums it up!!
 
Giblets said:
Sadly I don't think the use of copycat stickers or even Smartwater is going to have much affect on the slashing, stabbing and vandelising morons in the latest case mentioned by Jonic.
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Babylon said:
That's the way its going - my sister lives in a fancy London neighbourhood and I've often seen private security vans patrolling the public streets. Deterrence has to be the objective - because frankly the police aren't up to it....
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Police aren't up to it or simply possess finite resources? Either way, what Babylon describes in London is exactly correct and I happen to know that the cost of a 24/7 1/2-man security presence will cost in the region of £250k per annum. There are over 600 boats moorings in the mid Hamble River (ref below) managed by Hampshire Council. So that's £250k/600 which amounts to around £420 per annum for a reasonable level of protection.

There are two ways to look at those numbers: not bad value for a boat owner's peace of maind, and still way cheaper than a marina, but on the other hand far above what Hampshire Police could reasonably be expected to pay for the purposes of protecting private leisure assets.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ... Response 2018 10 23.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
 
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Alternatively, Plod could, with the help of a marine equivalent of neighbourhood watch, catch the couple of scrotes who are doing it and stop a lot of other local crime at the same time.

Am I right in thinking that your figures are based on a static post? If so, you'd have to add the cost of a vehicle and a RIB and their running costs , plus, probably, radios, which would push the price up a fair bit

If I had a boat that was worth breaking into, I'd consider fitting a screamer alarm. This one claims to be 130dB, which not many people would want to share a cockpit with for long. I'd also want to make my mooring as vandal-proof as possible in case scrote thought setting my boat loose was suitable payback for his tinnitus. The only issue I could see is shitehawks setting it off, which may or may not be a bad thing ...
 
Stemar said:
Alternatively, Plod could, with the help of a marine equivalent of neighbourhood watch, catch the couple of scrotes who are doing it and stop a lot of other local crime at the same time.

Am I right in thinking that your figures are based on a static post? If so, you'd have to add the cost of a vehicle and a RIB and their running costs , plus, probably, radios, which would push the price up a fair bit
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You're right. In the case I'm thinking of the security co. supply the car, but are provided with a security hut which includes toilets, heat, internet, comms, basic cooking, etc. The costs you cite would indeed have to be added with insurance on top.

Still, I'd say for £300k per annum it would very much be doable, which is still £500 per mooring. Then there is the added kick in that professional security operations which cooperate with the police can ironically attract a more robust police response as they are only asked to tip up if something live is going down.
 
The cost per mid-river mooring would go down if the levy - albeit a much reduced one - were applied to marina boats as well. One might argue that they're already paying a fortune and that marinas are already much more secure environments. But inclusion in the scheme would benefit all boats on the Hamble, and a tie-in between marina operators (which are spaced all the way up the navigable length of the river) and the HM/police would make for a much more effective (and cost-effective) scheme.
 
Sorry to pour cold water on it, but until it's known what the cost of theft and damage is, the idea of spending £300k on trying to prevent it is, um, premature. Secondly, I'd lay a bet that Andy and the Pink Ferry crew could put it together for £50k!

Spread the equipment cost over a few years and every owner could fit his own boat with an alerting system for well under £500/year. That would be a constant deterrent, whereas a man in a boat could at best be a very predictable once hourly presence if he's doing Bursledon to Warsash.

I've got a couple of ideas for collaborative use of tech to bring the cost down a lot, but that's for a different thread.
 
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