Rival v Rustler comparison

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Picoquestions

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I’m torn between a Rival 32 and Rustler 31 which would you buy and why?
Relatively similar vintage (because of budget) I intend to mostly solo sail, first of all coastal (south England) to bed in my skills; then further afield channel, Scillys, Ireland, Azores etc etc…
 
Somewhat similar boats except that the Rival is a bit more modern in terms of keel and rudder shapes. Realistically when buying this sort of boat the only things that really matter are condition and equipment. Either will do the job you want it to do (even though there are many other boats that will do it equally well or better!). What others think (or would choose) is really not important as it is you buying the boat!
 
Both yachts have a sucesfull history of single handed sailing and ocean sailing, so I wouldn't be too worried about which model to pick. Rather, make the comparison between what. you are getting for your money.

Both can be purchased within the same price range, £15k to £25k with the Rival 32 likely being stacked more to the left of the range. If it was me I would compare the folloikmng based on price: -

Sails, condition, material type, age and suit contents
Engine, type, age, hours
Instruments, age and type
Windvane, fitted not, type and state of repair
Autohelm, type, age, fitted or not.
Age of rigging
State of interior, clapped out, reasonable or good.
Window and hatch integrity, leaking, weeping, damage to lining below window and any subsequent fresh water damage
Rudder, bearings, leaking.
Age of batteries and wiring, good, poor, shit

You get the drift.
 
I lived on a Rustler 31 in the Caribbean for about two years, about 20 years ago. Crossed the Atlantic both ways, very seaworthy as you'd expect but also surprisingly - to the doubters of such "old" designs - fast. We averaged 5.6 knots downwind from Canaries to Barbados, and 5.8 knots on a windy beam reach coming back from Bermuda to Azores. That's 135nm average days (several were over 150), on a 31ft liveaboard cruising boat with a 24ft waterline, for 19 days, on the west going Atlantic trip. That's not considered that fast nowadays because everybody does it in 40 footers (in fact 40ft would probably be below average now), but it would still actually be quite respectable. We were faster than many people on much larger boats on the ARC that year - we were too poor and too poorly equipped to be on the ARC, different story, but left about the same time.

As others have stated condition is at least as important as any other factor between these two, but there is quite a difference underwater: the Rustler 31 has a full (not even very cut away in the forefoot) long keel whereas the Rival whilst not exactly radical is longish fin and skeg. The Rustler is often referred to as a "bigger Twister", and both were designed by Holman & Pye. If you like Twisters the Rustler 31 is basically the same but a bit more spacious and faster. The Rustler probably has (even) less initial/form stability than the Rival so wow does she roll downwind (19 days...), but also virtually steers herself, in any direction, and has an incredibly comfortable motion in a chop. We didn't broach, never even once, even when surfing (well some kind of gravitationally-assisted speed surging) at 11 knots with too much sail up when caught out by a fairly healthy gale. If you follow the numbers, motion comfort ratio of 40 for Rustler 31 vs 33 for the Rival, both are very high by modern standards for boats of this size (or even boats quite a bit longer).

We did know the people on a Rival 31 (same boat as 32 but with a transom hung rudder) going south from UK and across the Atlantic at same time as us, and generally speaking I think we were faster on the Rustler - but we did have the "tall rig" version. We also knew the people on a Swan 38 and they were faster than us on inter-island passages but actually slower across the Atlantic.

My point being somebody will come along and say "why do you want such a horrible old design, it'll be slow and mouldy?". Well it won't necessarily be slow, particularly in ocean conditions - short (or single) handed you'll be able to push it to a higher percentage of its ability, more easily and in less fear of your life when the sh*t has hit the fan than any "modern" boat of similar size - and it will only be mouldy if it's not been loved.

They are both good boats so long as you don't want a lot of room inside - my current, not at all modern but more modern than the other two being discussed Sadler 29 (motion comfort ratio 26) has more room inside (and that's now considered a small 29 footer). And a Rustler 31 or a Rival 32 is pretty much bulletproof, you will give up long before either boat does.

90% of the time at sea something more modern would be faster. 100% of the time in harbour or at anchor something more modern would be more comfortable. But that other 10% of the time at sea you'll be glad of the old-fashioned design. I think it's fair to say on older boats they tended to design the accommodation to fit the hull they'd drawn, nowadays the accommodation will have been considered earlier in the design process (and affect the hull design). And no matter what anybody says about forecasting being better and more accessible nowadays, they still don't always get it right - especially more than a few days out, ie over longer passages - and no you can't always outrun it.

Also when comparing other boats you have to include budget, so maybe the real question is what else can you have for £25k (ish, ready to go) that would be better-suited to what the OP states? Including, potentially, singlehanded to the Azores. I'm quite interested in that question because I'm considering a Jester Azores for 2028 (assuming that's when the next one is). I might do it in the Sadler 29 and hope not to have the 10% conditions whilst at sea... she'd survive but definitely would not be as comfortable as the Rustler 31.
 
If you’re set on one of the two classes you’ve named then great, and I wish you luck in finding the right boat. If it was me looking in that size and price range however, I’d be looking at Halmatic 30s too. Several on Apolloduck at the moment, some with recent rigging, some with engines replaced and a choice of Mk 1 or Mk 2 layouts.
 
I can't give comparisons because I have only sailed my R32. But I can say that, running downwind, on the way back from the Azores, we decided to drop the main in what had turned into a F9. My brother handed me a sail tie to me as I stood on the cabin roof. It occurred to me that this is what had worried me when I set off; to be caught in a storm. And here I was, comfortable!, up on deck!
 
RunAgroundHard said:
Both yachts have a sucesfull history of single handed sailing and ocean sailing, so I wouldn't be too worried about which model to pick. Rather, make the comparison between what. you are getting for your money.

Both can be purchased within the same price range, £15k to £25k with the Rival 32 likely being stacked more to the left of the range. If it was me I would compare the folloikmng based on price: -

Sails, condition, material type, age and suit contents
Engine, type, age, hours
Instruments, age and type
Windvane, fitted not, type and state of repair
Autohelm, type, age, fitted or not.
Age of rigging
State of interior, clapped out, reasonable or good.
Window and hatch integrity, leaking, weeping, damage to lining below window and any subsequent fresh water damage
Rudder, bearings, leaking.
Age of batteries and wiring, good, poor, shit

You get the drift.
Click to expand...
Read your interested in Jester Azores. Jesters are having a symposium in Feb 26 you may like. It’s in the jester FB page
 
As the owner of a Rustler 31 in which we did an Atlantic circuit including being caught in a F9 gale after leaving the Azores, The stuff in the yachting press amuse me when they list all the "essentials"for ocean cruising. We didn't even have a fridge! I'm a bit biased but I would concede that the Rival would also do the job. For ocean voyaging, an incapsulated keel and fully accessible rudder is a real bonus. I don't know if the Rival had a bolt-on keel. The Halmatic 30 certainly does.
 
Anne Hammick wrote a book about sailing the Atlantic and think that was in a Rustler. I would choose a Rustler over a Rival 32 or a Nic 32 or a Contessa. Sailed my then girlfriend's dad's one many decades ago and really liked it. But as the consensus says the boats are really so similar that it is the equipment they come with and the previous love they have had that is important. (Think the Rival 32 can hobby horse a bit(?) but much easier to manoeuvre in a marina., but not a reason to buy a boat over another..... Happy hunting.
 
bromleybysea said:
As the owner of a Rustler 31 in which we did an Atlantic circuit including being caught in a F9 gale after leaving the Azores, The stuff in the yachting press amuse me when they list all the "essentials"for ocean cruising. We didn't even have a fridge! I'm a bit biased but I would concede that the Rival would also do the job. For ocean voyaging, an incapsulated keel and fully accessible rudder is a real bonus. I don't know if the Rival had a bolt-on keel. The Halmatic 30 certainly does.
Click to expand...
We also did a two year Atlantic circuit in my Rustler 31, the boat is of the old school type that "looks after you" in any conditions... in fact she was far more capable than we were! That included some spectacularly bad weather somewhere between Azores and Portugal, when two storms merged. Such things are not always forecast and even if they are you can't always outrun them.

In more benign conditions we were faster from Canaries to Caribbean than a lot of (bigger and much better-equipped) ARC boats but I would admit that was partly due to leaving two days before the ARC - rather than setting off into a wind hole - and a bit of routing luck. However it was also partly due to the fact the Rustler 31 is a very easy boat to sail at somewhere close to hull speed (as long as there's some wind), requiring minimal steering effort (she never ever broached) making her ideal for the Aries windvane, and being tolerant of a bit too much sail for brief periods (squalls). We didn't have any specialist downwind sails, I think the working jib stayed up all the way across and we flew either the genoa or number two opposite.

That sustainable consistent (near to hull) speed over long distances wasn't a one-off, coming back east, from Bermuda to the Azores, we averaged just over 6 knots.

We didn't have many of the magazine list "essentials" mostly due to budgetary constraints. When my father offered us £500 to improve matters we opted for a sprayhood rather than an EPIRB or liferaft (the boat had come with a Tinker Tramp and canopy kit); we didn't have a watermaker (it's perfectly possible to carry enough drinking water the whole way, everyone used to!); we did have a fridge but it was only about a cubic foot. All our cooking was on a two burner alcohol stove, including baking bread (in the unpressurised pressure cooker). We didn't have an anchor windlass but on small boats you can pull everything up by hand even if it involves a bit of swearing. The 25-lb CQR was OK and free (well it came with the boat).

That was 25 years ago but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't still be possible today. No we didn't have as much room inside as even one of the cabins on a 45ft catamaran but we spent most of our time outside, as did most other people regardless of yacht size.

We did know someone with a Rival 31 doing similar and I think ours was the better boat, but I was completely biased and in love with my Rustler (they do that to you)! More pragmatically I think we probably also had a higher sail area to displacement ratio - ours didn't have the original rig - although that does also rather depend on what sails you choose to set...
 
nestawayboats said:
I lived on a Rustler 31 in the Caribbean for about two years, about 20 years ago. Crossed the Atlantic both ways, very seaworthy as you'd expect but also surprisingly - to the doubters of such "old" designs - fast. We averaged 5.6 knots downwind from Canaries to Barbados, and 5.8 knots on a windy beam reach coming back from Bermuda to Azores. That's 135nm average days (several were over 150), on a 31ft liveaboard cruising boat with a 24ft waterline, for 19 days, on the west going Atlantic trip. That's not considered that fast nowadays because everybody does it in 40 footers (in fact 40ft would probably be below average now), but it would still actually be quite respectable. We were faster than many people on much larger boats on the ARC that year - we were too poor and too poorly equipped to be on the ARC, different story, but left about the same time.

As others have stated condition is at least as important as any other factor between these two, but there is quite a difference underwater: the Rustler 31 has a full (not even very cut away in the forefoot) long keel whereas the Rival whilst not exactly radical is longish fin and skeg. The Rustler is often referred to as a "bigger Twister", and both were designed by Holman & Pye. If you like Twisters the Rustler 31 is basically the same but a bit more spacious and faster. The Rustler probably has (even) less initial/form stability than the Rival so wow does she roll downwind (19 days...), but also virtually steers herself, in any direction, and has an incredibly comfortable motion in a chop. We didn't broach, never even once, even when surfing (well some kind of gravitationally-assisted speed surging) at 11 knots with too much sail up when caught out by a fairly healthy gale. If you follow the numbers, motion comfort ratio of 40 for Rustler 31 vs 33 for the Rival, both are very high by modern standards for boats of this size (or even boats quite a bit longer).

We did know the people on a Rival 31 (same boat as 32 but with a transom hung rudder) going south from UK and across the Atlantic at same time as us, and generally speaking I think we were faster on the Rustler - but we did have the "tall rig" version. We also knew the people on a Swan 38 and they were faster than us on inter-island passages but actually slower across the Atlantic.

My point being somebody will come along and say "why do you want such a horrible old design, it'll be slow and mouldy?". Well it won't necessarily be slow, particularly in ocean conditions - short (or single) handed you'll be able to push it to a higher percentage of its ability, more easily and in less fear of your life when the sh*t has hit the fan than any "modern" boat of similar size - and it will only be mouldy if it's not been loved.

They are both good boats so long as you don't want a lot of room inside - my current, not at all modern but more modern than the other two being discussed Sadler 29 (motion comfort ratio 26) has more room inside (and that's now considered a small 29 footer). And a Rustler 31 or a Rival 32 is pretty much bulletproof, you will give up long before either boat does.

90% of the time at sea something more modern would be faster. 100% of the time in harbour or at anchor something more modern would be more comfortable. But that other 10% of the time at sea you'll be glad of the old-fashioned design. I think it's fair to say on older boats they tended to design the accommodation to fit the hull they'd drawn, nowadays the accommodation will have been considered earlier in the design process (and affect the hull design). And no matter what anybody says about forecasting being better and more accessible nowadays, they still don't always get it right - especially more than a few days out, ie over longer passages - and no you can't always outrun it.

Also when comparing other boats you have to include budget, so maybe the real question is what else can you have for £25k (ish, ready to go) that would be better-suited to what the OP states? Including, potentially, singlehanded to the Azores. I'm quite interested in that question because I'm considering a Jester Azores for 2028 (assuming that's when the next one is). I might do it in the Sadler 29 and hope not to have the 10% conditions whilst at sea... she'd survive but definitely would not be as comfortable as the Rustler 31.
Click to expand...
Some of the boats that are on the Salty Dawg rally from the East coast of USA to Antigua, at the moment, experienced over 50kts early on in the rally. Sometimes forecasts, even with all the modern computing power, are pretty rubbish. Once you start doing long distance ocean passages, you have to accept an increased risk of poor weather. It's at times like these that a boat designed to take these conditions comes into its own, as you found out.
 
nestawayboats said:
We also did a two year Atlantic circuit in my Rustler 31, the boat is of the old school type that "looks after you" in any conditions... in fact she was far more capable than we were! That included some spectacularly bad weather somewhere between Azores and Portugal, when two storms merged. Such things are not always forecast and even if they are you can't always outrun them.

In more benign conditions we were faster from Canaries to Caribbean than a lot of (bigger and much better-equipped) ARC boats but I would admit that was partly due to leaving two days before the ARC - rather than setting off into a wind hole - and a bit of routing luck. However it was also partly due to the fact the Rustler 31 is a very easy boat to sail at somewhere close to hull speed (as long as there's some wind), requiring minimal steering effort (she never ever broached) making her ideal for the Aries windvane, and being tolerant of a bit too much sail for brief periods (squalls). We didn't have any specialist downwind sails, I think the working jib stayed up all the way across and we flew either the genoa or number two opposite.

That sustainable consistent (near to hull) speed over long distances wasn't a one-off, coming back east, from Bermuda to the Azores, we averaged just over 6 knots.

We didn't have many of the magazine list "essentials" mostly due to budgetary constraints. When my father offered us £500 to improve matters we opted for a sprayhood rather than an EPIRB or liferaft (the boat had come with a Tinker Tramp and canopy kit); we didn't have a watermaker (it's perfectly possible to carry enough drinking water the whole way, everyone used to!); we did have a fridge but it was only about a cubic foot. All our cooking was on a two burner alcohol stove, including baking bread (in the unpressurised pressure cooker). We didn't have an anchor windlass but on small boats you can pull everything up by hand even if it involves a bit of swearing. The 25-lb CQR was OK and free (well it came with the boat).

That was 25 years ago but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't still be possible today. No we didn't have as much room inside as even one of the cabins on a 45ft catamaran but we spent most of our time outside, as did most other people regardless of yacht size.

We did know someone with a Rival 31 doing similar and I think ours was the better boat, but I was completely biased and in love with my Rustler (they do that to you)! More pragmatically I think we probably also had a higher sail area to displacement ratio - ours didn't have the original rig - although that does also rather depend on what sails you choose to set...
Click to expand...
Interested in the bread baking technique. I’m amazed you could get enough temperature on an alcohol burner. Must have used a truckload of fuel? With the sealed container did you add any steam?
 
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