Rival 38 "Lynn Rival" EPIRB Activated - No Information

[pragmatist]

These unfortunate couple took a rally from Turkey to India as their first big trip and then suddenly they are left with no mutual support and go off sailing alone thinking they were as safe as before.

However, their log gives all the details that organized pirates need. Sailing speed, departure date, future plans, on board equipment list via MARS database and photos, and crew complement and age. However, what was different was they had no rally for support.

Halfway - I'll give credence to some of what you say - I suspect that the new breed of pirates are internet-savvy and use this to collate data on targets.

But you are way out of line on the experience of the Chandlers - they may not have been 100m offshore (but how many of us sailing around Europe would boast that anyway ?) - they have been cruising for quite a long time - mainly 6 months on/off when I was in touch with them. I corresponded with Rachel at least 5 years ago and was the lucky recipient of their pictures of Greece, Turkey, Corinth Canal etc.

And if you decided to transit the Red Sea would you not consider sailing in company ? I would.

I am not sure their decision to go from Seychelles to Tanzania was a good one but if you look at the places they have visited they appear to have tried to avoid Somalia. Perhaps their information on the spread to mother ships and offshore piracy was out of date.

I sincerely hope they are well and will survive to cruise again. They have a well-found boat, considerable experience and, perhaps, a degree of naivete in publishing their plans. But, were you in their situation, would you not want your friends and family to know where you were and what you were doing ? Perhaps things have/need to change - sadly.

 

[tudorsailor]

The new breed of pirates that have emerged since the time of the birth of AIS are a commercial military organization that use intelligence gathering network. They monitor AIS transmission far up the Gulf, even probably in Suez, and around southern Africa to plan their next attack. They also monitor all the internet for vessel descriptions, data and travel plans.

However, their log gives all the details that organized pirates need. Sailing speed, departure date, future plans, on board equipment list via MARS database and photos, and crew complement and age.

I really find it hard to comprehend that Somali pirates scour the Net for sailing blogs to find the very rare yacht that will be in their area. What do you Google? "Sailing blog Indian ocean"? Surely this must be simply bad luck of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. This must be in contrast to commercial vessels that publish their position and course from AIS. Or do they turn off the AIS when in pirate infested waters?

I wish the couple a speedy end to their nightmare

 

[ColdFusion]

Interesting update and development: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8330406.stm

 

[halfway]

Wait.

I will post again after they are safe.

But to answer the questions, yes we sailed alone through the Red Sea, Yes we spent a year researching the issues of the area to a very fine degree plotting and reading all reports in that area. We used a contact in the FCO at all times. We gave our families private email updates. We have used false positions and lied to port captains about destinations. We ran silent, and in stealth mode, with basically un-detectable radar returns, which we verified using friendly ships in friendly waters. We altered course or stopped to allow boats to pass miles ahead. The list of things we did to avoid undue attention was huge, but it was all part of the fun. There was no leaving it to chance.

We did get close though, with other yachts getting fired on and chased. We were in VHF range of a major pirate incident. Pirates were killed. We even listened on VHF as a yacht was chased by criminal gangs. In all cases the boats were advertising their position openly. All cases no navy or protection vessel even answered the distress calls.

The key to real cruising is not to be where anyone expects you. 5 miles away is enough to be invisible. 100 miles is like being in another world. The Ocean is huge.

Quick calculation: the route to Tanzania is about 1000miles and the distance from the Horn to South Tanzania is 1500miles. That is 1.5 million sq miles. Assuming spotting a candidate boat at 3 miles. Say a 10 sq mile grid. That is 150,000 grids. You need to be in a grid with a spotter in good conditions and they need to assess you for an attack. In no way is it random in those areas. They use information, local sources, and the predictability of GPS routed vessels going between waypoints. You have to ask why it took over 24 hours to check out?

So I stand by what I said, and we do need to be more careful. But commenting on anything other than cruisers future protection, and especially providing new information about this couple, that is not already easily available, is wrong.

 

[Ubergeekian]

But to answer the questions, yes we sailed alone through the Red Sea, Yes we spent a year researching the issues of the area to a very fine degree plotting and reading all reports in that area. We used a contact in the FCO at all times. We gave our families private email updates. We have used false positions and lied to port captains about destinations. We ran silent, and in stealth mode, with basically un-detectable radar returns, which we verified using friendly ships in friendly waters. We altered course or stopped to allow boats to pass miles ahead. The list of things we did to avoid undue attention was huge, but it was all part of the fun. There was no leaving it to chance.

... But commenting on anything other than cruisers future protection, and especially providing new information about this couple, that is not already easily available, is wrong.

That's why you've just posted all that detail about how you played dodge-the-pirates, is it? It sounds great fun and very Boys' Own / Biggles. Who would you have expected to rescue you if it had all gone wrong?

 

[Ubergeekian]

Quick calculation: the route to Tanzania is about 1000miles and the distance from the Horn to South Tanzania is 1500miles. That is 1.5 million sq miles. Assuming spotting a candidate boat at 3 miles. Say a 10 sq mile grid. That is 150,000 grids. You need to be in a grid with a spotter in good conditions and they need to assess you for an attack. In no way is it random in those areas.

A Rival 38 sail can probably be seen from about 5 miles. A single scout can therefore cover a ten mile wide strip of sea. If they do 20kt, that's 200 square miles per hour. If one mothership has five scouts, that's 1000 square miles per hour. Hunting for ten hours a day - 10,000 square miles per day. There you go, 30 motherships could easily search the whole area every week.

 

[halfway]

Freedom

orbister: "OTHER THAN" cruisers future protection. The situation is PAST sailing!

NO, we do not carry distress beacons. We are not "screamers". The vocal UK yachting community have not escaped from their childhood security blanket complex. We choose not to live in a protected bubble where mummy will come running as soon as we scream.

Nor, are we pack animals relying on the aged-alpha leader to make the decisions and keep us in line. Acting like a young dog is not our idea of freedom. The rally leaders, I have met, do not even qualify as some one to buy a used car off, their issues are time and money.

If you really want a comparison to comics then I think you are in the dream world of "international rescue". Puppet life.

As for your calculations, I hope you never have to organize a rescue. If they took your advice the authorities would just find them by the fuel bills flapping in the wind.

I will stay safe and content in my world, whatever you call it, and be proud of what we achieved.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Awful expensive, though. Probably cheaper just to let the couple and their friends rustle up a ransom and put it down as a valuable learning experience.

- and this couple should therefore be fine as long as negotiations proceed, someone can sell their house for them ... and no daft politicians try to make a name for themselves just before a general election by sending in the military in a gung-ho adventure.

Pressure from yachties for the government to do something really may not be in the best interests of this pair.

Who needs enemies with friends like you!! So their friends can just "rustle up" a ransom and sell their house and then put it all down as a "valuable learning experience".

I think what you've said here is disgraceful. There's an innocent couple being held by international pirates. It's an awful time for the Chandlers, their family and friends. I suggest you think a little harder before adding anything further to this thread.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

New Postings On Matters Raised In These Threads Would Be Better

Folks - If at all possible lets keep this posting free for info on this particular subject only, messages of support etc.

If anyone wishes to discuss piracy I would request that you consider a new post.

Thanks

Colleagues please take up your good points on another posting. I have made a request to YBW to lock this post / thread from further contributions. The original post request has now been superseded and served its purpose.

Many Thanks