Ripped off by Motortech

[Observer]

Leopards don't change their spots and neither, it appears, does Motortech. I was ripped off by Motortech 4 or 5 years ago with respect to servicing on a previous boat. I though a change of ownership may have improved matters so decided to give them a second chance.

Apart from a lousy customer service ethos (no interest at all when an electrical fault threatens to screw up a weekend - "can't look at it until next week"), they're up to their old tricks of doing work which isn't needed (even by manufacturer's recommended standards) and have added charging for replacement parts which weren't supplied (unless my boat has grown a couple of new engines while I wasn't looking).

150 hours service on KAD300s:

RK Marine: fixed price including all parts/lubricants (and will not replace parts - e.g. drive belts and impeller - if not needed so could be cheaper), £318 + VAT per engine (max. £750).

Motortech: actual charge including NINE new belts for two engines and SIX fuel filters/inserts, new impellers, new air filters, two very expensive (£120) gasket kits for something or other yet to be explained, total £1,462 including 13.5 hours labour.

Needless to say it's the last piece of work they'll ever do for me.





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[jfm]

Eek. Very poor, but it sounds like you are on the case to makem explain.

I'll be interested to hear what the £240 of gaskets are.

Our new engines (Volvo D12) have no fixed service intervals. Rather there is a matrix in the handbook, which tells you that the service interval varies from 50hours to 400 hours depending on two factors, namely the quality grade of the engine oil and the sulphur content of the fuel. (There is also an every-12-months override). Now, I can see that those two factors could influence the correct service interval, but plainly they couldn't impact wear and tear on belts, impellers and air filter elements. Thereofre I conclude those items can run for 400 hours. In which cae they seem to be changed more frequently than needed......

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[amf]

Would be interested to hear about your experiences with RK Marine. I am also looking for a replacement for Motortech at Port Solent - have not been impressed at all.

Cheers

Andrew

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[Rob H 37]

Had a very similar experience with them - repeatedly reporting recurring fault and each time Motortec prescribing a solution (Costly) that has not cleared the fault - the trouble is that you start off down a path and its difficult top know when to stop!

Needless to say the problems still there I'm a few thousand quid down and Mototec are now saying its a different problem.

I have to day that your the first other person that I heard have a negative thing to say about them as they we're recommended to me - perhaps there are more, I'm not the only one and my suspicions are validated.


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[Observer]

I have no direct experience of RK Marine but I will try them out.

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[Talbot]

not had actual experience of Marine power at Burseldon, but when I asked them to service my engine, they said that I would be better off doing it myself, and that I only needed to do . . . . . . . and they would do it if I really wanted them to, but it was not really worth the cost until the next major service was due.

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[ianainge]

R K Marine: dont hold your breath.

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[jfm]

FWIW, and completely t'other side of the pond, we used to get good service from SAL Marine in Lymington. Annual service on pair of 63Ps was in the order of £800 I thiink, including a lab report on oil samples. They are an authorised volvo agent

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[DERF]

All of the above posts seem contrary to my experience. I've had to deal with Motortech on a number of occassions and found them to be courteous, accomodating and helpful. On two occassions they have sorted problems at very short notice.. could it be because it was warranty work?

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[kimhollamby]

150hr = first service after the warranty 50hr oil change and tickle?

Incidentally that's something that has always seemed a bit strange on the 30 and 40-series service schedule -- if you do the 50 at the beginning you either do another oil change 50 after that (wasteful to say the least) so that the 200 falls correctly, or you do 100 and 200 scheds after 50, which in fact means doing the first full one at 250 -- nowhere in the warranty could I ever find what was deemed correct.

When I was running my Pedros with TMD31s (sister engines) and doing 400-plus hours a year I asked Volvo Penta if the 100hr oil changes were essential (given I was sometimes changing it inside a month); initially the thought was that, as I was using the high-grade Volvo stuff we could go 200hr (as per bigger VP diesels) but when pushing for clarification that got quietly dropped and we carried booking services throughout the year.

At the kind of cost you have been billed I would have thought the bill included a substantial chunk for the tappet checks (it is stupidly labour intensive -- the fuel injection rack has to come off to get the damned rocker covers off and there are several gaskets that need replacing, potentially one for each fuel injector for starters if the same silly design as KAD44. Depending on engine access it can be a dog of a job.

I'd be nosing around the rocker covers PDQ and seeing if they look disturbed.

Valve gaps tend to open up very wide in first couple of hunded hours on 44 / 300 and any engine that has not been 'done' potentially starts to damage itself as valve faces can start to warp. A bit off the original subject but as I've started don't accept from an engineer that the tappets have been listened to -- these 24-valve heads seem to elude the usual ear against socket handle against rocker cover check.

If you are still in warranty I'd check the belts and impeller replacement thing -- MBM nearly got caught with this on the last boat when a valve peg decided to break itself on a 300 and there was some query as to whether the service schedule had been followed to the letter.

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[PaulF]

Kim, your comments re the oil changes are interesting.
I had a discussion with an oil wholesaler who supplies oil to the latest Volvo spec and supplies at least one main dealer. If this oil is used on trucks it is good for 50,000 miles, so at average of 50mph, (highly unlikely in most circumstances) it is good for 1000 hours. The previous Volvo grading was fit for 30,000 miles, at 50mph = 600 hours.
Some may say a boat engine has a harder life, but I am not altogether convinced, at least it has a more steady load than a road truck, where it can be being flogged up and down umpteen gears with extensive changes of load and rpm.

If Volvo spec these oils for long periods then they should not need changing so often. I wonder where the truth lies?

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[Observer]

Yes - had 50 hrs oil change and this was 150 hours service. Agree about the service intervals. The valve/tappet check is supposed to be 200 hrs - slap in the middle of the service interval. So do I have it done as a separate job or leave it till the 250 hours service?

Possibly they have done it at 150 hours as you suggest - it would explain the gasket set and the additional labour but why not mention it?. However, doesn't explain belts and impeller replacements which aren't needed (I'm sure about that - manual states "inspect and change if needed") nor belts for engines I don't have nor filters for engines I don't have.

I'll have a look at the rocker covers tomorrow. If it has been done, has it been done too early and further gap may develop so will need doing again? How do you tell - listen to tappets with socket handle as you suggest? Sounds a bit of a black art.

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[commissioner]

Would be interested to know which Motortec is the bad one, Port solent or haslar, I can only praise Motertec for everything they do for me in commissioning my boats. Jon, one of the guys from Haslar is the best technician I have ever come across, thourough and efficeient and of course the all important, CLEAN!!!
Its a real shame to hear that one part of a group, my guess, Port solent due to previous experience is letting down the whole group. Give Haslar a try and I think you will be pleasently suprised. As for R K, well we don`t use them for reasons.
Hope this helped.

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[kimhollamby]

Probably wasn't very clear about that -- was trying to say engineer's tried and tested ear doesn't seem to work on those 24-valve heads -- they don't rattle that much and power is not significantly lost. Only way is to ensure the job is done for sure every 200, which means taking the rocker covers off, which means taking the fuel injection rack off, which might mean taking other bracketry off etc etc etc

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[kimhollamby]

Re: Oil changes

I think some of the issue lies with formulating a service schedule geared for the very typical 50-100hr annual count of a typical boat engine.

If they were available at time of build and we had managed to get a bit more room in the engine space for 6cyl blocks I would have specced Perkins Sabre M135s for our displacement boat. Reason? 400hr service intervals, would have made a big difference to running costs. For someone doing 50-100hr it wouldn't make any difference of course.

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[PaulF]

Re: Oil changes

Yes Kim, I agree with the thinking behind that, but in that case it is totally pointless to use the long life, latest spec oil. The only person it benefits is the dealer.

I also agree with the thought behind the selection of the Sabre. Trouble is, engines, like boats, area compromise.

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[kimhollamby]

Perfect illustration of compromise

Because we had the 4cyl engines we had more cabin and tank space. And in fairness my well-pampered Volvo 31s did keep working...despite there being no non-turbo option by then (the 62hp naturally aspirated version had been dropped by then and we had turbo 100hp) and the engines therefore being a bit marginal for purpose. More compromises...

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[Tallulah]

I've used Motortech for years, In the early days I had lots of problems with the Port Solent operation (previous ownership). It didn't get much better when Crest took it over UNTIL the Haslar branch opened. As ever, when you take on these organisation, you actuially employ the engineer, not the company and Jon at Haslar is the best I've met and makes the continued use of Mototech worthwhile. He is, as another forum member has noted, knowledgeable, friendly and leaves your boat spotless. He also will give sensible advice about what REALLY needs to be sorted, not the "change everything and you'll eventually fix it" mentality that I had previously experienced.
Also Charlie in the Haslar Motortech office keeps on top of the admin and scheduling and normally manages to balance the needs and wants of the boat owners.

Try Haslar, but don't forget - I get priority access to Jon!!


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[PGD]

very poor, and we seem to hear too much of it.

Lets see what my local boys do with the refit of my new toilet /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Peter

PS if you get the chance, drop my site a vote against Motortech and RK Marine.

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[mjf]

I have found the opposite. Motortech sorted a small gearbox leak problem under warranty. No fuss just did what was required and kept me in the loop.

My first service was completed exactly as advertized - the boat was left very clean etc. They did (Kim pls note!) the tappets as extra to requirements due to some previous customer problems - they strongly recommended this. £500 or so all up on TAMD63's.

RK Marine on the other hand had the wit to bill me £21.28 for oil top up before I had even taken delivery of the boat new from Princess........presumably oil consumed in the delivery trip Plymouth/Swanwick. The engine hand over by them was brief in the extreme.

Motortech have been excellent with tips and advice.


You pays your money and takes your choice! I would however be interested in what the quote for the work was in comparision to the actual invoice.


Michael

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