No Regrets
Well-Known Member
Mind you, surely accepting payment for a licence for a given size vessel suggests they have a duty to enable that vessel to navigate?
Sale of goods act etc...?
Sale of goods act etc...?
Rights of Navigation - a serious question.
- Thread starter boatone
- Start date
boatone
Well-Known Member
In the Customer Charter the EA state the draught for which stretches of the river are safe for navigation in the fairway. Reading to Windsor, for instance, is 1.3 metres.
byron
RIP
Just a thought. About 30 years ago I was a guest for dinner aboard the THV Patricia. During the meal I was in conversation with the Captain and I specifically asked why Trinity House had never buoyed the wreck just off The Needles Lighthouse. I was told that due to its location any Buoy would be torn away sooner or later and if a vessel then hit it before it was replaced then it could be argued in Admiralty Court that T.H. was partially or wholly responsible.
Assuming a certain measure of Maritime Law must apply to the Thames then perhaps I have highlighted another reason why all 'hazards' are not marked on the Thames.
I don't know, all I am doing is raising a point for debate.
TrueBlue
Well-Known Member
Thinking more deeply about the subject (well it is a gloomy day today)-
I wonder, is there a right to remove something that is inhibiting one's right of navigation.
EA no longer have a tree cutting gang and so backwaters off the main channel are very overgrown with branches of trees (not to mention fallen trees).
On dry land I'm permitted to trim back trees overgrowing my property,
so is their a Common Law right to take a similar action on the River?
I wonder, is there a right to remove something that is inhibiting one's right of navigation.
EA no longer have a tree cutting gang and so backwaters off the main channel are very overgrown with branches of trees (not to mention fallen trees).
On dry land I'm permitted to trim back trees overgrowing my property,
so is their a Common Law right to take a similar action on the River?
jecuk
Well-Known Member
This is equivalent to the misfeasance/nonfeasance distinction ie if they do something and they don't do it properly they are at greater risk of being sued than not doing anything at all.
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
>>>
#24 Today, 10:36
TrueBlue
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sussex
Posts: 1,822
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Thinking more deeply about the subject (well it is a gloomy day today)-
I wonder, is there a right to remove something that is inhibiting one's right of navigation.
EA no longer have a tree cutting gang and so backwaters off the main channel are very overgrown with branches of trees (not to mention fallen trees).
>>>
ISTR we have one of them on here at times, or one who knows them, but don't the TuesdayNightClub crew carry a chainsaw for this sort of thing on a regular basis? Speculating wildly but I guess they may have done some preliminary research into its legitimacy.
#24 Today, 10:36
TrueBlue
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sussex
Posts: 1,822
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thinking more deeply about the subject (well it is a gloomy day today)-
I wonder, is there a right to remove something that is inhibiting one's right of navigation.
EA no longer have a tree cutting gang and so backwaters off the main channel are very overgrown with branches of trees (not to mention fallen trees).
>>>
ISTR we have one of them on here at times, or one who knows them, but don't the TuesdayNightClub crew carry a chainsaw for this sort of thing on a regular basis? Speculating wildly but I guess they may have done some preliminary research into its legitimacy.
ianc1200
Well-Known Member
I've only been aboard once on the Thames when we did this, about ten years ago, but somebody else more recently has had a good go at the overhanging trees, at least as far as Hannington Bridge.
On other navigations we've had to saw things off to get round/over/under, including sawing under water an obstruction on the flooded river (Yorkshire) Derwent, again many years ago.
Whether it's legal or not, we're trying to maintain a right/ability of navigation which if left to the EA wouldn't happen.
On other navigations we've had to saw things off to get round/over/under, including sawing under water an obstruction on the flooded river (Yorkshire) Derwent, again many years ago.
Whether it's legal or not, we're trying to maintain a right/ability of navigation which if left to the EA wouldn't happen.
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Is it just me who sees this as having an obvious solution, possibly also involving the (mis)use of chainsaws?
ianc1200
Well-Known Member
Isn't this what is meant by "Big Society"?
Lotus_John
Member
In this discussion it is perhaps more important to use the correct terminology i.e., registration instead of licence.
The following is an extract from a 2004 EA document ‘Harmonised Registration scheme-Questions and answers’ (inland waterways order 2010)
“What is the difference between a registration and a licence?
Registration is simply the process which links an identifiable boat with an identifiable owner. Whilst a fee is charged for this it is not a payment for goods or services. A licence is more like a lease or a permission for which there may be a charge. Strictly speaking ‘permission’ is not needed to navigate where there is a public right of navigation.”
No Regrets
Well-Known Member
Ah!
They thought of that one then ;-)
They thought of that one then ;-)
DogsBody
Well-Known Member
Reading that makes the fee we pay seem even more of a rip off than many already think it is.
Since by the EA's own definition, we are not getting any goods or services (i.e. locks / lock keepers) for our money ("registration fee") and hence no VAT to pay on the fee. Combined with the fact we are not paying for permission to navigate, because that would be a license not a registration and we have the right to navigate anyway, means all we are paying for is for someone to enter the details of our boat and its owner into a database and print off a receipt.
£500 (in many cases) for (lets be generous) 10 minutes work, is a rip off in anyone's book!
With that reasoning, I should jolly well expect them not to put the fee up any time in the next decade or two!
Lotus_John
Member
Most people navigating the Thames accept that they need to contribute to the infrastructure that makes navigation possible, i.e. locks, lay-bys etc and the registration charge is the mechanism that supplies that funding. If this is the accepted arrangement that enables the current navigation authority to manage the navigation on our behalf we should question why they think it fair to charge the full registration fee for a boat that does not leave the marina and use the navigation infrastructure.
Ramage
Well-Known Member
They seem to be adopting the Road Tax model, ie if your car is "On The Road" it must be taxed. This now applies unless you SORN the vehicle, even if the vehicle is on private land such as your drive etc.
As I understand it, EA now require licensing even if the boat is in private waters, providing that water is connected to the main stream ( such as a Marina).
If you are "On The Hard" you do not require a licence until you re-launch. How long will it be until they require you to SORN your boat if you are deemed to be "a Thames resident"?
And what about the Catch 22 situation of an Expired Boat Safety Certificate? You cannot licence unless you have a valid BSS, you cannot be in the water without a Licence, you cannot get a BSS if the boat is not up and running and in the water........
As I understand it, EA now require licensing even if the boat is in private waters, providing that water is connected to the main stream ( such as a Marina).
If you are "On The Hard" you do not require a licence until you re-launch. How long will it be until they require you to SORN your boat if you are deemed to be "a Thames resident"?
And what about the Catch 22 situation of an Expired Boat Safety Certificate? You cannot licence unless you have a valid BSS, you cannot be in the water without a Licence, you cannot get a BSS if the boat is not up and running and in the water........
