Right of way - what would you do???

[l'escargot]

Perhaps some of your customers are in their "difficult position" because they -- like you -- regard rules as "semantics". And as the OP asked "what is the correct 'rule of the road'? I think he was asking what the rules say. Not what you think they ought to say, or your excuses for ignoring them whenever it suits you....

They're not customers, they don't pay, but a bit like you they omit parts of the rules.

2a also says "...precautions which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen..." which I think could include a vessel entering a channel and the responsibilty not to cause other vessels navigating correctly in that channel to take avoiding action. Rule two is there to prevent people from hiding behind the rules and using them as an excuse, as you are by quoting rules 9 and 15, to justify what basically boils down to poor seamanship.

Bottom line is that there is no rule in colregs that covers the situation described by the OP no matter how hard you try to make one fit. Hence 2a coming into play. It comes down to commonsense and seamanship a view which you are now seeming to veer towards in your subsequent posts.

 

[splosh]

Folks,

I had an event happen at the weekend that I still feel anyoyed about, just not sure if I should or not.

For those that know the area I was passing Swanick marina in my 34' mobo heading up stream. (Standard river marina layout, pontoons coming from shore with boats moored on fingers).

A very large princess - probably 80 - 90' which was being helmed from the 3rd floor flybridge position (so able to see over the moored boats) came straight out into the channel from between the pontoons causing both me and a small tender to take evasive action without so much as acknowledging what had happened.

What is the correct 'rule of the road'. Is 'might right' in this sutuation or should he of paused at the exit of the marina pontoons and waited for me and the tender to pass (we were the only vessels in sight in either direction)?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Was you monitoring VHF Channel 68 - Hamble Radio. It' a condition that all vessels over 20 metres and commercial vessels call in and notify their movements and intentions. The Princess should of complied, and for sake I would say that it did comply, therefore if monitoring VHF 68 you would of heard his intentions - i.e = leaving his berth for whatever!

Just a thought that might help for the future.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

As a resident at Swanwick I'd say the de facto practice is for boats coming out of the marina to give way to boats already in the river. Wouldn't help in a formal disagreement of course.

OP makes the point that it was HW but normally the current does run fairly smartish across the ends of the pontoons. A few forumites warned me when we moved there. I can imagine that the Princess skipper was concerned about being broadside on.

Chances are the skipper was a Princess employee or contractor and so was experienced. Princess have based themselves at Swanwick in order to tempt me to upgrade and they swap the boats around all day long.

This is interesting. If the OP's description of the vessel is accurate, there is only one boat this could have been, and it was coming out between X and A pontoons at Swanwick, and it was being professionally helmed by the most competent skipper that I know.

The fairway between X and A at Swanwick has a dog leg; it's already tight for a vessel of this size, and the dog leg makes it super-tight - my guess would be that the skipper was just making the most appropriate exit from the fairway to the main channel given the constraints of the vessel and the fairway. I'd be surprised if he hadn't notified the movement on ch68 cos I think they do do that as a matter of course.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[timbartlett]

I think that is the key to it. My assumption from the description of the boat and some limited knowledge of the location is that from the height of the flybridge on a boat of that size river traffic should have been visible before casting off if the skipper had been keeping an adequate lookout.

Looks like the post I was drafting has been overtaken Jimmy the Builder's more up to date local knowledge. But here it is, anyway.....

In case it helps, here's a picture of the "scene of the crime".

IIRC, the new Princesses are mostly berthed right outside the Princess office, near the shoreward end of the third and fourth pontoons from the top.

If the Princess travelled from one of those berths at an average speed of 2 knots while the smaller boat was travelling up the main channel at 6 knots, then the smaller boat must have been nearly a quarter of a mile away (somewhere near the northern end of the pile moorings at the southern edge of the picture) when the Princess left her berth.

 

[dt4134]

Looks like the post I was drafting has been overtaken Jimmy the Builder's more up to date local knowledge. But here it is, anyway.....

In case it helps, here's a picture of the "scene of the crime".

IIRC, the new Princesses are mostly berthed right outside the Princess office, near the shoreward end of the third and fourth pontoons from the top.

If the Princess travelled from one of those berths at an average speed of 2 knots while the smaller boat was travelling up the main channel at 6 knots, then the smaller boat must have been nearly a quarter of a mile away (somewhere near the northern end of the pile moorings at the southern edge of the picture) when the Princess left her berth.

I guess we need info from the OP to form an opinion based upon that level of detail. The photo does show however that the fairway is almost as narrow as the lanes in the marina, which was one of the things that I considered significant.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Looks like the post I was drafting has been overtaken Jimmy the Builder's more up to date local knowledge. But here it is, anyway.....

In case it helps, here's a picture of the "scene of the crime".

IIRC, the new Princesses are mostly berthed right outside the Princess office, near the shoreward end of the third and fourth pontoons from the top.

If the Princess travelled from one of those berths at an average speed of 2 knots while the smaller boat was travelling up the main channel at 6 knots, then the smaller boat must have been nearly a quarter of a mile away (somewhere near the northern end of the pile moorings at the southern edge of the picture) when the Princess left her berth.

Hi Tim

I think you're referring to PMYS's own berths on C and D pontoons, which are mostly used for stock boats, and customers. If the OP's description of the vessel is acccurate, the boat in question permanently lives on X which is the eastern-most pontoon shown on your photo. You can also see the dog-leg in the fairway.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[PaulGooch]

It seems to me that several posters here are applying the logic of "rules of the ROAD". This isn't a case of just sitting at T junction in a lorry while the other guy drives past in his Mondeo. The Princess was clearly in a restricted space and would have been adversely affected by any wind, tide or current. I doubt he had any choice and given that the OP was able to and did take avoiding action, it seems that both parties took the sensible course of action. The only thing possibly missing was the wave from the Princess skipper....... IMO

 

[jimg]

I can't work out how to add a poll to this post, but as a matter of interest, if you are in an 11m motorboat, heading up a channel which is wide enough for you to do a complete U turn -- how big must the crossing vessel be before you decide that Commonsense B (Might is Right) takes over from Commonsense A (Major road)?
5m?
11m?
20m?
50m?
Bigger?
Something else?

You need to edit your profile, I think it is "edit options" and change from the simple edit mode to the "higher" one; not sure what it is called.