Rigging or sea cocks replacement

[Cariadco]

Seacocks, defo.
Have a look at the Plastic True Design. I fitted them throughout my Boat and I love 'em.
Fit and Forget!!
Tru Design

 

[ylop]

I would replace the seacocks. One started to leak on my 7 year old Bavaria and on closer inspection it was badly corroded and could have failed at any time. I was subsequently informed that they only have an expected life of 5 years (although clearly often last a lot longer) - that was a great surprise to me

Yeah, but the OP has a boat that's 40 years old and probably have 40 year old seacocks made of decent materials not the corner cutting cheese bavaria started using when they put short term profit higher up the priority than brand reputation, so fitted the minimum the RCD would permit.

I think I’ve got original bronze ones from over 40 years ago! I got them ‘checked’ when I bought the boat- is this a reliable strategy? Or should they be replaced even if they look fine?

I would be prioritising your standing rigging rather than the sea cocks if you have no reason to suspect they are modern cheap crap.

I disagree. Sensible people set a budget for proactive maintenance, as the OP has done. Waiting for things to break only results in loss of use of the boat during the season.

Exactly - some people here either wait till stuff brakes / becomes a safety issue or have infinite funds. Having a rolling programme of replacement / upgrades rather than waiting till all the problems land in the same year seems a very sensible way to budget. He has no information suggesting either NEED replacing immediately. He is asking a part of a planned maintenance programme which other people would do first. My answer is simple - if they might be cheap zinc sea cocks and so the boat MIGHT sink then that's no 1 priority. if they are not then rigging failure becomes more likely to happen sooner and I'd do the rigging first. AIUI this is consistent with most insurers approaches - they set intervals for replacing rigging and replace sea cocks only when inspection suggests it is needed. My surveyor recommended a rolling programme of rigging replacement so you don't get hit with a big bill all in one year.

 

[Tranona]

Just because he "thinks" they need replacing does not mean they must be without any form of inspection and assessment. As I pointed out earlier of the seacocks are Blakes they can be serviced rather than replaced. Equally rigging failure in a simple rig on a small cruiser is extremely rare and then not related to age but often to unpredictable failure of a components. Visual inspection is the first step.

 

[Daydream believer]

I am not so sure about small boats not having rig failures
I lost the mast on a 4 year old Silhouette circa 1963 when a wire failed & there was no indication. Just broke somewhere in the middle in long strands. I do not think that it was the result of kinking in storage. We sometimes have the wires on our Squibs break when they have been on the moorings for a few weeks . No apparent reason. Just come out to the mooring & find a broken stay. Normally above the lower chain plates. Might be due to slack rig so we now leave the backstay on tight. I have had 2 on my Squib in 12 years & have a spare handy. Some of the other owners have had spares as well. So whilst a Squib is only 19 ft there are a few small cruisers of that size about.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I am not so sure about small boats not having rig failures
I lost the mast on a 4 year old Silhouette circa 1963 when a wire failed & there was no indication. Just broke somewhere in the middle in long strands. I do not think that it was the result of kinking in storage. We sometimes have the wires on our Squibs break when they have been on the moorings for a few weeks . No apparent reason. Just come out to the mooring & find a broken stay. Normally above the lower chain plates. Might be due to slack rig so we now leave the backstay on tight. I have had 2 on my Squib in 12 years & have a spare handy. Some of the other owners have had spares as well. So whilst a Squib is only 19 ft there are a few small cruisers of that size about.

I would guess that stainless wire suffers from fatigue failure or aerobic corrosion at swaged fittings more than anything. You can guess how fatigue failure can be caused with a rig cycling through high tension and low tension as the boat bobs up and down or simply through constant but varying re-tensioning of the rig.

 

[Tranona]

I am not so sure about small boats not having rig failures
I lost the mast on a 4 year old Silhouette circa 1963 when a wire failed & there was no indication. Just broke somewhere in the middle in long strands. I do not think that it was the result of kinking in storage. We sometimes have the wires on our Squibs break when they have been on the moorings for a few weeks . No apparent reason. Just come out to the mooring & find a broken stay. Normally above the lower chain plates. Might be due to slack rig so we now leave the backstay on tight. I have had 2 on my Squib in 12 years & have a spare handy. Some of the other owners have had spares as well. So whilst a Squib is only 19 ft there are a few small cruisers of that size about.

This is a masthead rig Southerly 100, not a racing keelboat. There are tens of thousands of similar boats in use in use, many with very old rigging and pretty sure if there was a rash of rig failures the mags would be full of reports and dire warnings. Frequent replacement of perfectly sound rigging is driven by insurers.

 

[ProMariner]

Replacement mast = £10000
Softwood bung = £2,

I would do the rigging this year, and just inspect / service the seacocks. I've been sinking offshore, and bunged it. I've lost a mast offshore, and jury rigged it. The broken transducer mount was a minor inconvenience, caught it before we got much if any water damage. A mere trifle compared to the cost of replacing: mast, rigging, sails, halyards, electrics, electronics. not to mention the hull and lifeline damage.

Servicing and inspecting all the through hulls, you will know intimately where they all are, you can draw up a through hull plan, and can tape a suitable softwood bung to each one, and have a mallet put aside for just this, maybe fit a good loud bilge alarm. Consider the above waterline fittings too, bilge pump outlets, gas bottle and anchor locker drain drains, tank breathers etc, some may be plastic and starting to get brittle, all will be below the water at some point. Get in the habit of cycling all your through hulls open and shut as part of your pre departure checklist, none of these things are expensive, but all will help get you a good nights sleep.

Any idea of the maintenance history of the lifting keel?

Rigging can look fine and just break, without even considering spreaders and spreader roots, tangs, chain plates, bottle screws and clevis pins, a horrendous mix of different metals, with a much lower safety factor than anything else aboard, due to the necessity of keeping it light, if ever there was a suitable candidate for preventative maintenance, this is it.

 

[Dutch01527]

If the OP thinks that either, or both, items needs replacing, then it is a no brainer. They should be replaced immediately. Owning a boat requires a budget suitable to maintain it in a safe working condition. If one cannot afford to do that, then one should ask if one can afford the boat in the first place. Unfortunately the brutal reply might be No.
[/QUOTE
There is no reason to believe that the items are faulty. I would agree that if there were it needs addressing quickly. The question was about preventative maintenance because the age is uncertain.

 

[Dutch01527]

Replacement mast = £10000
Softwood bung = £2,

I would do the rigging this year, and just inspect / service the seacocks. I've been sinking offshore, and bunged it. I've lost a mast offshore, and jury rigged it. The broken transducer mount was a minor inconvenience, caught it before we got much if any water damage. A mere trifle compared to the cost of replacing: mast, rigging, sails, halyards, electrics, electronics. not to mention the hull and lifeline damage.

Servicing and inspecting all the through hulls, you will know intimately where they all are, you can draw up a through hull plan, and can tape a suitable softwood bung to each one, and have a mallet put aside for just this, maybe fit a good loud bilge alarm. Consider the above waterline fittings too, bilge pump outlets, gas bottle and anchor locker drain drains, tank breathers etc, some may be plastic and starting to get brittle, all will be below the water at some point. Get in the habit of cycling all your through hulls open and shut as part of your pre departure checklist, none of these things are expensive, but all will help get you a good nights sleep.

Any idea of the maintenance history of the lifting keel?

Rigging can look fine and just break, without even considering spreaders and spreader roots, tangs, chain plates, bottle screws and clevis pins, a horrendous mix of different metals, with a much lower safety factor than anything else aboard, due to the necessity of keeping it light, if ever there was a suitable candidate for preventative maintenance, this is it.

Not sure that a through hull will necessarily break of completely whist I am on the boat and can use a bung. More likely to crack or weep probably when I am away from the boat but I do have bungs to use if possible.

Keel pennants we're changed 7 years ago and will be redone this year. Not a big ticket job. Keel was removed and refurbished about 15 years ago. Overdue redoing but it is massively over engineered and about 10k. The stainless pin and new version keel cast in are very strong. On the list but not immediately.

 

[Daydream believer]

Not sure that a through hull will necessarily break of completely whist I am on the boat and can use a bung. More likely to crack or weep probably when I am away from the boat but I do have bungs to use if possible.

On the subject of bungs
I had a blockage to the heads & was pulling the hose really hard when the pipe to the valve disintegrated completely. I was able to shut the valve. But this made me think.
It would be a brave skipper who found a through hull had started to split & was leaking whilst at sea & decided to try & break it right off to get a bung in to it. There would be no guarantee that it would break off completely . Plus if it did that it did so cleanly so that a bung would fit

I carry bungs tied with a length of string to each through hull. But I am not sure that they would be much use. If the hose split ( yes, that has happened to the engine intake because every year I remove it for fresh water flushing. So it became damaged)& the valve broke(not yet, fortunately but one never knows), it might be too difficult to get the hose off the fitting. I could cut through most of the hose with a junior hacksaw or very sharp knife. But the last bit of wire would mean that I would have to bend it sideways. But that might not be possible. All the time water would be flooding in. Then the proximity of the ball would stop the taper of the plug going right in.
Things roll about in the bilges & there is nothing to say that constant knocking, or vibration of something heavy against a through hull fitting would not start a split.

 

[Daydream believer]

There is no reason to believe that the items are faulty. I would agree that if there were it needs addressing quickly. The question was about preventative maintenance because the age is uncertain.

With due respect , that is a bit like "Should I reef yet, or should I wait a bit longer?". If you have got to the stage where you are thinking about it, then it is a pretty much a good reason to do it.

 

[lustyd]

If you have got to the stage where you are thinking about it

Good skippers think about it constantly, even on brand new boats. Really good skippers learn to inspect things and understand them enough to make decisions. Time is only a factor when compared to the durability of the item, but the durability of those items isn't even remotely standard, and neither are the conditions they live in. Take anodes, for example, some last decades and others last a week. Ignoring things because your predetermined time period hasn't elapsed is not wise, but then neither is waiting for failure. I thought about the rigging on my last boat for 6 years before finally replacing it, but I knew it was safe as I inspected it.

 

[doug748]

I am working through a series of improvements / maintenance on my new boat. It is a 1986 Southerly and is generally in good condition.

I am trying to do one or two big items a year. Last year was a electric windlass and AIS.

This year I am considering replacing the standard rigging or the sea cocks. Both items are of uncertain age but at least 10 years old. I suspect that the bronze sea cocks might be original.

Neither have any visible issues or excessive wear but I want to be cautious. The boat is kept on a swing mooring and is unattended for reasonably long periods on occasion.

Budget only stretches to one this year with the second being done next year

Which would you replace first?

I would replace the forestay and fettle all the Blakes seacocks. Hopefully they will all be proper Blakes, if not it is probably best to replace the poor quality stuff.

This composite approach will let you do the expensive (and very probably pointless) replacement rigging at a later date.

.

 

[penfold]

Good skippers think about it constantly, even on brand new boats. Really good skippers learn to inspect things and understand them enough to make decisions. Time is only a factor when compared to the durability of the item, but the durability of those items isn't even remotely standard, and neither are the conditions they live in. Take anodes, for example, some last decades and others last a week. Ignoring things because your predetermined time period hasn't elapsed is not wise, but then neither is waiting for failure. I thought about the rigging on my last boat for 6 years before finally replacing it, but I knew it was safe as I inspected it.

If an anode is lasting decades unbolt it, throw it away and plug the holes because it's doing nothing except slowing the boat down.

 

[oldharry]

I am not so sure about small boats not having rig failures
I lost the mast on a 4 year old Silhouette circa 1963 when a wire failed & there was no indication. Just broke somewhere in the middle in long strands. I do not think that it was the result of kinking in storage. We sometimes have the wires on our Squibs break when they have been on the moorings for a few weeks . No apparent reason. Just come out to the mooring & find a broken stay. Normally above the lower chain plates. Might be due to slack rig so we now leave the backstay on tight. I have had 2 on my Squib in 12 years & have a spare handy. Some of the other owners have had spares as well. So whilst a Squib is only 19 ft there are a few small cruisers of that size about.
Rigging is subject to constant cyclical stress on a moored boat, every time if rolls.. Stress-destress-stress all the time it is afloat. So the rig on a boat on an exposed moorings is likely to fail sooner than a boat ashore or in a sheltered marina.. Stainless is well known for not showing any sign of fatigue until it fails which is why riggers play safe when inspecting rigging.

Rigging on a moored boat is still subject to cyclical stressing as it moves, and much more so on an exposed moorings where the boat is constantly rocking. Stainless is well known to be vulnerable to cyclical stress loading and failure with little or no warning.

 

[Daydream believer]

Frequent replacement of perfectly sound rigging is driven by insurers.

So why do you think that is?

 

[mjcoon]

So why do you think that is?

Aversion to risk, of course! Plus not contributing to replacement costs...

 

[Daydream believer]

Aversion to risk, of course! --Edited

Precisely.
"Risk" being the operative word

 

[Dutch01527]

In my experience insurers are either very clever or very stupid. I can not figure out which. I am in the process of renewal of my student sons car insurance policy. Young person in Manchester city centre. Last year adding myself as a named driver reduced the premium by 30%. This year removing me from the policy reduced the premium by 35%. Nothing has changed. Changing from parking on the driveway to parking on the street overnight reduced the premium by a further 10%.

Makes no sense from a risk point of view that I can see. Only thing I can think of to explain is that they are quoting the renewal sky high and hoping we would just accept and making up reasons to reduce it to stop us cancelling with them.

 

[Dellquay13]

We all accept a level of risk when we step onboard.
I can think of no other instance of ‘the man in the street’ being so easily and quickly able to put themselves into such an alien and life threatening environment as being afloat and offshore, just by driving for a couple of hours or so to the coast and skippering something that be widely bought for just a few £1000.
The risks can be on par with winter mountaineering or flying small aircraft, but far easier to facilitate.