Rigging condition

[Kilo]

As said if you have U bolts for chain plates you might not need toggles on the attachment as the U bolt can provide lots of articulation. In fact it is likely the bend occurred ina collision or in the mast raising if it was raised using a hinged base. Nota problem craning mast on.
Re U bolts. I have a deep suspicion of these for chain plates. I had a U bolt on the bow of my trailer sailer for attaching winch to haul onto trailer. Looked really robust 3/8 inch diameter U however it broke and showed that it was turned down to 5/16 inch diameter for the bolt part and nuts to enable it to sit outside the skin. I had used it for a mooring attachment so some sideways load hence fatigue. Another friend bought a new Farr 25 from Turkey. This had U bolts for chain plates. One let go obviously under sized. My point is that u bolts may be a weak link in the stays so check and perhaps go over sized. You might also consider replacing the U bolts with large saddle and bolts through the deck. This kind of thing Ronstan Stainless Steel Narrow Saddle 5/16 , $7.99 | Whitworths Marine
ol'will

Thank you I'll have a look, the boat's a minnow (Manta 19) with less sail area than a wayfarer so I'm assuming that the loads are relatively small however I will be taking a close look at the u bolts. This might be just the thing.

 

[Kilo]

That is well past it's sell by date! Talurit's and thimbles in 1x19 wire are frowned on these days - as crewman observes above, they stress the wires unevenly.

What should we use instead of a thimble? Probably an idiot question but having spoken to the suppliers above I can't get a rigging screw of the right length to replace what I have and since I'm looking to replace the shrouds anyway I have the opportunity to go with current best practice. Cheers, K

 

[DownWest]

With a small rig like that, Talurit swages on 3 mm7x19 wire would be fine. 5mm is the limit for 1x19 with Talurit, but that is for the OP's rig. We don't know yet what boat it is, esp with loops on one end of some shrouds. Perhaps Chris-s would come back fill us in.

 

[chris-s]

Some good replies here.

Yes, I should have mentioned that our boat is a little 24ft Pegasus 700.

The upper ends of the cap and lower shrouds have talurit loops and the bottom ends have thimbles attached using a variety of different turnbuckles to saddled u-bolts.

Besides the surface corrosion to the ferrules I really can’t see anything that would otherwise cause me to question the state of the rigging. But given we have no idea of its age, the mast is down and its affordable then it’s getting replaced.

Now, if only boats could talk. Quite why the shrouds are attached using three different sizes/styles of turnbuckles, why one is slightly bent, why the toolbox in the locker has a selection of other very bent turnbuckle parts, how did the spinnaker eye end up almost flattened against the mast, what caused the crack under one of the cap shroud u-bolts I found a few weeks back ‘hidden’ under some sealant?

I won’t start listing the odd wiring and other mast related oddities. I’ll save those for another thread!

I wonder if it has anything to do with having an RORC sail number?

Chris

 

[DownWest]

Some good replies here.

Yes, I should have mentioned that our boat is a little 24ft Pegasus 700.

The upper ends of the cap and lower shrouds have talurit loops and the bottom ends have thimbles attached using a variety of different turnbuckles to saddled u-bolts.

Besides the surface corrosion to the ferrules I really can’t see anything that would otherwise cause me to question the state of the rigging. But given we have no idea of its age, the mast is down and its affordable then it’s getting replaced.

Now, if only boats could talk. Quite why the shrouds are attached using three different sizes/styles of turnbuckles, why one is slightly bent, why the toolbox in the locker has a selection of other very bent turnbuckle parts, how did the spinnaker eye end up almost flattened against the mast, what caused the crack under one of the cap shroud u-bolts I found a few weeks back ‘hidden’ under some sealant?

I won’t start listing the odd wiring and other mast related oddities. I’ll save those for another thread!

I wonder if it has anything to do with having an RORC sail number?

Chris

Sounds like you have the option to replace with roll swaged lowers terminals and fresh turnbuckles, with loops at the top by Talurit. Just a bit puzzled by how the loops are used on what is a relatively 'modern ' yacht. Usually seen on wooden masts on gaffers.

 

[chris-s]

Do you think they date-stamp the swages ...

 

[DownWest]

Do you think they date-stamp the swages ...

View attachment 101273

Not seen that before, but it does look like a date. And not that long ago
On your original pic, the swage on the right appeared to have a bust wire sticking out past the thimble and it was commented on. Is it really like that, or is that a blemish in the wood is it resting on?

 

[chris-s]

Not seen that before, but it does look like a date. And not that long ago
On your original pic, the swage on the right appeared to have a bust wire sticking out past the thimble and it was commented on. Is it really like that, or is that a blemish in the wood is it resting on?

One of them did have a broken wire, tucked away up inside the mast completely out of sight. Just as well I decided to change them all.

 

[C08]

As said if you have U bolts for chain plates you might not need toggles on the attachment as the U bolt can provide lots of articulation. In fact it is likely the bend occurred ina collision or in the mast raising if it was raised using a hinged base. Nota problem craning mast on.
Re U bolts. I have a deep suspicion of these for chain plates. I had a U bolt on the bow of my trailer sailer for attaching winch to haul onto trailer. Looked really robust 3/8 inch diameter U however it broke and showed that it was turned down to 5/16 inch diameter for the bolt part and nuts to enable it to sit outside the skin. I had used it for a mooring attachment so some sideways load hence fatigue. Another friend bought a new Farr 25 from Turkey. This had U bolts for chain plates. One let go obviously under sized. My point is that u bolts may be a weak link in the stays so check and perhaps go over sized. You might also consider replacing the U bolts with large saddle and bolts through the deck. This kind of thing Ronstan Stainless Steel Narrow Saddle 5/16 , $7.99 | Whitworths Marine
ol'will

Yes I had some stainless eye bolts where the eye was a substantial 12mm section but the bolt section was only a 6mm thread and that had a waist where the thread joined the forged or cast eye, so only about 4-4.5mm!

 

[DownWest]

One of them did have a broken wire, tucked away up inside the mast completely out of sight. Just as well I decided to change them all.

Ah, so the loops are threaded inside the mast and held by a cross bolt?

 

[chris-s]

Ah, so the loops are threaded inside the mast and held by a cross bolt?

Yep. the lowers around the a bar that the spreaders attach to and the cap shrouds over a pin that goes thru the mast. A pin that is held in place by washers at either end in turn secured by two very rusty self tapping screws that virtually fell out ? Needless to say, I shall be tapping the ends and using some bolts and locking wire.

 

[DownWest]

Yep. the lowers around the a bar that the spreaders attach to and the cap shrouds over a pin that goes thru the mast. A pin that is held in place by washers at either end in turn secured by two very rusty self tapping screws that virtually fell out ? Needless to say, I shall be tapping the ends and using some bolts and locking wire.

Not very kind to the wire that goes round the bolt, as a small radious. But likely the wire is well over what is really needed. Worked up to now..

 

[LadyInBed]

What should we use instead of a thimble?

Two ways to go, a made to measure wire with a swagged turnbuckle or a wire and a DIY swageless turnbuckle
3mm Turnbuckle Toggle-Swageless - Closed Body - 316 Stainless Steel
Using swageless means that you can cut the wire to length laid against the old wire and fitting.
You can order the wire with a swagged fitting on the top end or you can also get swageless top end fittings for a total DIY job.

 

[GHA]

Do you think they date-stamp the swages ...

Often the dies will have a serial number so you know which dies have crimped what.
Markings. if going by loler UK regs would include a working load limit and a serial number of the rope and the should be a test certificate created.
This doesn't look like it's had any of that, looks like 1 x 19 wire? Nasty radius round the thimble and soft eye. Should be fine though, might be worth considering replacing with 7 x 19 wire, much better suited to crimping tight radius's .

 

[Kilo]

Two ways to go, a made to measure wire with a swagged turnbuckle or a wire and a DIY swageless turnbuckle
3mm Turnbuckle Toggle-Swageless - Closed Body - 316 Stainless Steel
Using swageless means that you can cut the wire to length laid against the old wire and fitting.
You can order the wire with a swagged fitting on the top end or you can also get swageless top end fittings for a total DIY job.

Thanks for the link, looks lovely but costs £33 per piece!! I know I asked the question but having looked at the costs and given the nature of the boat, the ease with which I can access the top of the mast and all the fittings I'm thinking I'll go with a DIY thimble and replace the rigging screws. Thanks to all for the suggestions everyone.