Rigging advice

[Boo2]

Hi,

I want to re-rig Sunrunner (UFO 34) so as to bring the reefing lines back to the cockpit for the specific aim of making her easy to single hand.

At the moment she has a somewhat cobbled together system where some lines are dealt with by winches abaft the mast and others are brought back (see pic). There is a fairly absolute limit of 10 lines that I can bring back because there is only space for 5 rope clutches on either side between the handrail and hatch. (It might be possible to bring 2 lines back outside the handrail but I'm a bit dubious as to how that'd work in practice).

Here's what I've currently got and I will put what I require below the pic :


Lines dealt with at mast (from p to s, all routed out of bottom of boom) :

Reef---------------r3
Reef---------------r1
Outhaul------------01
Reef---------------r2

Lines currently run back to cockpit (from p to s)

Roller Furler--------g1
Foresail halyard----f1
Foresail Halyard----f2
Genoa Halyard-----g2
Vang--------------v1

------centreline-----

Cunningham--------c1
Main Halyard-------m1
Foresail halyard----f3
Spi uphaul---------s1
Spi pole foreguy----s2

As you can see there are 3 foresail halyards in addition to the spinnaker uphaul and genoa and main halyards which seems a lot, can anyone suggest why there are so many ?

Anyway, here's the pic :

I am looking for advice on which lines to run back to the cockpit, here are my current ideas but please let me know if you think I am doing the wrong thing.

Not in any specific order :

Main :
3 * reefing------r1,r2,r3
halyard---------m1
vang-----------v1

Genoa:
halyard---------g2
furler-----------g1

Spinnaker:
halyard---------f1
pole uphaul-----s1
pole foreguy----s2

Total lines------10 as required, reefing lines to be changed to single line reefing from the current arrangement.

The intent is to deal with the following at the mast :

Main :
cunningham----c1
flattener reef---f1
outhaul--------o1
topping lift-----t1

The other foresail halyards are not really required as far as I can see and I will just tie them off or something as spares. My thinking behind the lines at the mast is I will not be playing with them when the main is reefed anyway and when the main is not reefed I won't mind going forward to fiddle with them. Sunrunner has a spring vang so doesn't need or have a topping lift atm but I intend to fit it as a backup and for various other uses.

My major uncertainties are regarding the spinnaker lines : I haven't used the spi yet, but the boat is set up for method 3 on page 12 in the Selden manual "Using a spinnaker" (dip pole gybing with a mast track for the inboard end of the pole).

Because I haven't use a spi yet (either single-handed or on Sunrunner) I cannot decide whether these lines are the right ones to bring back to the cockpit, can anyone tell me if I will be making it impossible to use the spi or cruising chute if I rig the boat like this ?

All advice gladly appreciated, remember I am single handed and will never be racing.

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[prv]

Sounds like it was initially set up as quite a racey boat.

I guess the idea of multiple headsail halyards is so you can set one up ready to go while another is still flying, then get one down and the other up in the minimum possible time. Irrelevant if you're cruising with a roller genoa.

From the picture it looks like your reefing tacks go onto a hook at the gooseneck rather than having pendants? If so, you really need the halyard and the clew pendants at the mast as well so that you can reef from one place on your own. If you don't want to reef at the mast then you need reef tack pendants, either separate (my preference) or combined with the clews as "single line reefing".

You could go halfway with halyard at the mast and clews in the cockpit, which would work but require moving around; halyard in the cockpit with hooks at the gooseneck is a recipe for frustration if there's noone else to handle the halyard for you. Remember you'll probably need the topping lift to hold the boom up while reefing, too.

I've had a beer or three tonight and my racing-foredeck days are long ago, but I think you probably want the pole uphaul at the mast for singlehanding. You'll have to combine it with other foredeck work so you'll want it near at hand, not back aft. Foreguy (we called it downhaul) can go aft for trimming.

Pete

 

[Boo2]

From the picture it looks like your reefing tacks go onto a hook at the gooseneck rather than having pendants? If so, you really need the halyard and the clew pendants at the mast as well so that you can reef from one place on your own. If you don't want to reef at the mast then you need reef tack pendants, either separate (my preference) or combined with the clews as "single line reefing".

Yes, as you say I do intend to change to single line reefing and my questions are based on that being the case.

Thanks for the reply,

Boo2

 

[prv]

Also, that furthest-starboard line (yellow and black fleck) looks like it's chafing horribly on the deck organiser.

Pete

 

[Norman_E]

Also, that furthest-starboard line (yellow and black fleck) looks like it's chafing horribly on the deck organiser.

Pete

If I am correct that it is the spinnaker tack line, the solution on my boat is a foot block bolted to the deck, about a foot ahead of the deck organiser and inboard of it to give a chafe free run.

Noting your proposals, I find it useful to have the topping lift brought back, and leave the genoa halyard at the mast. It really depends if you adjust the halyard frequently, or not.

 

[Boo2]

I've had a beer or three tonight and my racing-foredeck days are long ago, but I think you probably want the pole uphaul at the mast for singlehanding. You'll have to combine it with other foredeck work so you'll want it near at hand, not back aft. Foreguy (we called it downhaul) can go aft for trimming.

Thanks, would you bring a snuffer tube line back to the cockpit or leave that at the mast too ?

Boo2

 

[Boo2]

Also, that furthest-starboard line (yellow and black fleck) looks like it's chafing horribly on the deck organiser.

If I am correct that it is the spinnaker tack line, the solution on my boat is a foot block bolted to the deck, about a foot ahead of the deck organiser and inboard of it to give a chafe free run.

Yes, thanks to you both for mentioning it, I will check it out next time I'm up at the boat.

Noting your proposals, I find it useful to have the topping lift brought back, and leave the genoa halyard at the mast. It really depends if you adjust the halyard frequently, or not.

Well, I don't need a topping lift in general use because I have a spring vang (there is currently no TL fitted but I am going to add one for emergencies).

Boo2

 

[smth448]

I think you will struggle to fit single line reefing to three reefs. I don;t think there will be enough room in the boom for all the blocks and rope to fly up and down.
You should certainly be able to simplify your deck arrangements considerably.
Your foredeck seems to have a couple of tripping hazards that you could get rid of.
Do you need to winch the furling line? If no you copuld lead it round the stanchion bases to the stern and then to a cleat. That will remove one line from the cabin top.
I wopuld lead the pole downhaul down both sides of the cabin to cleats on either side. This will allow it to be adjusted as the guy is adjusted to keep the pole under control. I assume your boat is masthead so the kite will be huge. Doing this will halve the load on your pole downhaul.
Only have one spare halyard. You don't need two spares. A spare spinnaker halyard can double as a spare genoa halyard but not the other way round.
If you have a sprung kicker you do not need a topping lift so don't bother.
Do you need a flattening reef? Modern sails are rarely fitted with one. The outhaul generally does fo this.
Think carefully about the lead for the kicker. It needs to lead so that it can be adjusted with the mainsheet if possible and from either side of the boat.

 

[chewi]

I don't think you can really take a snuffer aft, mine is an endless loop, you'd have to leave it in situ( with sock?) or thread both up/down halves of it through leads to aft.
Best tied to the foredeck.

Single line reef can have many snagpoints if not v. well designed.
I use separate lines on tack/clew but brought to adjacent clutches so both can be pulled together for speed or winched separately.

My tack lines are tied to the horns, up thro the cringle down other side through gooseneck to deck and aft to clutch. when you haul on that the tack nestles just where the horn is.
Clews follow a similar route from gooseneck aft.


reef is:
support boom (topping lift/rod)
release halyard,
pull the reef pair (by hand as far as poss)
winch the reef tack
winch the halyard
winch the reef clew
release topping lift

 

[chewi]

I don't see any point in taking a furling genoa halyard aft, that will spare you one line.

You say she's set up for dip pole, but isn't that babystay going to get in the way of that?

I would expect end for end with a baby stay, but am v. willing to learn form others on any of these aspects.

 

[Robin]

Nice boat BTW, always fancied one of those.

To add my two pence worth to other's comments.

I see no point in taking genoa halyard, topping lift (since you have a gas strut), flattener/Cunningham or sail outhauls back. Nor do I see a need to take a spinnaker halyard or pole controls back either as all of these in cruising trim are fair weather things that are no hassle to do at the mast.

Reefing. I agree with someone else that 3 slabs single line will not be possible. On our last boat we did pretty well what you intend doing except that by choice we went with two line reefing, twice the number of lines but each one is half the length of a single line system one. We left the flattener/Cunningham and clew outhaul at the mast, as well as the spinnaker halyard, pole uphaul, downhaul etc. We did have a topping lift despite the gas strut but had it adjustable via a two part tackle and cam cleat on the boom end, purely to use as a steady when stowing the main.

We had in all 14 clutches, seven per side but that included the genoa reefing line and two for staysail or storm jib sheets. It also included the two mainsheet traveller lines and the mainsheet.

If you need more deck organiser spots, you can piggy back them one above the other and they don't have to match in number with the base one.

Ours taken back therefore were

Genoa reefing line
Main halyard
Port traveller line
Tack reef 1
Clew reef 1
Staysail sheet port
Mainsheet.

Starboard traveller line
Kicker
Tack reef 2
Clew reef 2
tack reef 3
Clew reef 3
Staysail sheet starboard (plus we used it for the asymmetric tack downhaul)

Ours worked really well and we could reef or de-reef single handed without needing to go on deck at all or wake the other half to help.

Poor pic but shows port side clutches and winch.

 

[Boo2]

I think you will struggle to fit single line reefing to three reefs. I don;t think there will be enough room in the boom for all the blocks and rope to fly up and down.

Reefing. I agree with someone else that 3 slabs single line will not be possible. On our last boat we did pretty well what you intend doing except that by choice we went with two line reefing, twice the number of lines but each one is half the length of a single line system one. We left the flattener/Cunningham and clew outhaul at the mast, as well as the spinnaker halyard, pole uphaul, downhaul etc. We did have a topping lift despite the gas strut but had it adjustable via a two part tackle and cam cleat on the boom end, purely to use as a steady when stowing the main.

We had in all 14 clutches, seven per side but that included the genoa reefing line and two for staysail or storm jib sheets. It also included the two mainsheet traveller lines and the mainsheet.

If you need more deck organiser spots, you can piggy back them one above the other and they don't have to match in number with the base one.

Thanks again for the replies. I misspoke in my original post - it is not the organisers which is the limiting factor, it is the number of clutches between the handrail and hatch which cannot be altered - there are currently 5 fitted either side and they completely fill the space available.

I did already understand that it is not possible to have more than 2 reefs inside the boom with blocks but my plan is to use the Barton style reefing as in the pic below.

With the outhaul and flattener I have sheaves to fit 2 reef blocks inside the boom, the other (3rd reef) will have to run entirely outside as per Barton's drawing.

Any comments gratefully received,

Boo2

 

[Boo2]

I don't think you can really take a snuffer aft, mine is an endless loop, you'd have to leave it in situ( with sock?) or thread both up/down halves of it through leads to aft.
Best tied to the foredeck.

Yes, I do see it's not the easiest set of lines to route but I thought the advantage would be that you can un/snuff the spinaker whilst steering the boat which would compensate for a bit of the inconvenience. When not flying the kite the whole lot would be in the spinnaker bag so no inconvenience otherwise.

My tack lines are tied to the horns, up thro the cringle down other side through gooseneck to deck and aft to clutch. when you haul on that the tack nestles just where the horn is.
Clews follow a similar route from gooseneck aft.

My plan was to replace the rams horns / gooseneck pivot with an eye bolt of the same size and attach blocks to that for all the lines.

Boo2

 

[Boo2]

You say she's set up for dip pole, but isn't that babystay going to get in the way of that?

I would expect end for end with a baby stay, but am v. willing to learn form others on any of these aspects.

Yes, but the pole will dip inside the baby stay I think, I will have to check but that's the current setup. It works OK with the lightweight genoa pole anyway.

Boo2

 

[prv]

Yes, but the pole will dip inside the baby stay I think, I will have to check but that's the current setup.

The pole uphaul comes out below the top of the baby stay, then? If so I guess it will work, you're not looking for split-second performance around the cans, after all.

Nor do I see a need to take a spinnaker halyard or pole controls back either as all of these in cruising trim are fair weather things that are no hassle to do at the mast.

I didn't suggest taking them back because of the modern fear of the foredeck, but because it seemed likely that a single-handed sailor would need to be near the tiller while making a massive trim change like a spinnaker hoist. Also in order to let it go and immediately bundle the spinnaker under the boom and down the hatch, which is how we did it when I did any racing (other techniques are available )

Agree spinnaker halyard belongs at the mast with more crew - you can hoist faster without all the turning blocks.

Pete

 

[Robin]

I didn't suggest taking them back because of the modern fear of the foredeck, but because it seemed likely that a single-handed sailor would need to be near the tiller while making a massive trim change like a spinnaker hoist. Also in order to let it go and immediately bundle the spinnaker under the boom and down the hatch, which is how we did it when I did any racing (other techniques are available )

Agree spinnaker halyard belongs at the mast with more crew - you can hoist faster without all the turning blocks.

Pete

Not the fear so much for us either but that ours was in a snuffer so had both a halyard and snuffer lines as well as all the other stuff. So it was down to the wondrous Pontius the Pilot to steer in our case.

 

[Boo2]

The pole uphaul comes out below the top of the baby stay, then?

Ah, no, forgot about the uphaul, that issues from somewhere near the upper spreaders and the baby stay from somewhere near the lower spreaders It'll have to be disconnected each time since the spi pole definitely has different ends and it can't be end-for-ended

I didn't suggest taking them back because of the modern fear of the foredeck, but because it seemed likely that a single-handed sailor would need to be near the tiller while making a massive trim change like a spinnaker hoist. Also in order to let it go and immediately bundle the spinnaker under the boom and down the hatch, which is how we did it when I did any racing (other techniques are available )

Yes, that was my thinking, I will want to be near the tiller when hoisting or dropping the spi.

Boo2

 

[William_H]

Lines back to the cockpit

There is a lot of speculation going on here.
You should sail the boat and get some experience then change around the halyards etc. I seem to change mine around occasionally.
You will soon know which lines you use often.
However for my opinion you don't need all the jib halyards.
You don't need topping lift
I think you will find the 2 line reefing system as described to be inadequate for real reefing needs. Try it however. It is fairly simple to change to 2 line reefing which is far more manageable. If you have the main halyard to hand you just drop the sail a bit using the tack pendant to pull it down then take up the clew pendant and do it by stages. You will note that the tack pendant pulls from a point forward of the eyelet and below. This is important to provide a pull forward of the tack eyelet so ensuring tight foot. I found it is hard to get that foot stretch with 2 line reefing.
You may find it adequate to have just one or 2 reefs unless you are really going out to sea. Also the flattening reef is redundant as soon as you go for first reef so you might well do without that. good luck olewill

 

[chewi]

I think you will find the 2 line reefing system as described to be inadequate for real reefing needs. Try it however. It is fairly simple to change to 2 line reefing which is far more manageable.

I am confused that you think 2 line is both inadequate and yet far more manageable?

 

[prv]

I am confused that you think 2 line is both inadequate and yet far more manageable?

Typo.

Pete